Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266616376

From: "Irish III DNA" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] FTDNA v. ISOGG R1b haplotree comparison updated
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:52:56 +1100
In-Reply-To: <>

Elizabeth wrote:-

There are some O'Loughlins, and other non-Dalcassian families that show the
Irish Type III STR signature, and this could be
explained by the common practice for followers of Medieval leaders to take
their clan leader's name to show their allegiance.

John answered:-

There are several possible explanations for this. One could be the
O'Loughlins are actually Dal Cas but were given a pedigree from Ir for some
unknown reason. It could also be true that the genealogical construct of the
Dal Cas is artificial and the pedigrees do not show all members of the tribe.
In other words the Irish Type III could take in more than just what are
described as Dal Cais in the pedigrees. The O'Loughlins of Burren were
co-relatives of O'Connor Corcumroe and O"Connor Kerry. Are there any O'Connor
DNA samples that match the Irish Type III? Why were these septs given a
descent from Ir? Your idea is also a possibility. I thought the O'Loughlns
with their pedigree from Ir were a striking anomaly in the Irish Type III

These were said to be descendants of Fergus mac Roich, grandson of Ruadri
Mor, founder of Clanna Rory in Ulster. It may ultimately be tie into
mythology, in which Ciar, a son of Fergus mac Roich and Queen Medb of Connacht,
is said to be the founder of the Ciarraige (Co. Kerry). The pedigrees show
the ancestor of the O'Loughlins as another son of Fergus mac Roich, named
Corr. The split between O'Connor Kerry and O'Loughlin of Co. Clare is so
distant I doubt any of the early names in the pedigree are valid. The
O'Connor of Corcumroe split with O'Loughlin may well be genuine.
In the Irish Type III database, I have one only O'Loughlin DAARP so I don't think all O'Loughlins will be Irish Type III.
I also have two O'Connors, one in Ysearch, WC3H8 so again, perhaps just a Dalcassian adherent of an O'Connor chief.
I do keep a listing of surnames with the Irish Type III signature, but several, marked with an '*' know they were adopted or that there was an NPE of some description.
There are many names here that are non-Dalcassian, including my own.
I have suspicions that a certain John O'Brien, an escaped convict from Sydney, NSW in 1827 who was never captured, made it to the wilds of Northland, New Zealand and became John Wright.
Still to prove but I have the Dalcassian DNA!!!

Dennis Wright

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