Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266689551

Subject: [DNA] Question for Ken RE: AS7E
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:12:31 EST

I'd be interested to know whether you have any ideas about AS7E.

You once said you thought the subgroup could be younger than the age of
surnames and might be the result either of mass adoptions or a promiscuous
male somewhere in history. Then later, you calculated time to MRCA as
approximately 1300 years but indicated it could be as recent as 1000 years ago.

I have since been collecting any information I could find on the ancestry
of AS7E families, which unfortunately, isn't much; however, I have run into
several men who match the Childers family closely and believe or know that
their male ancestor was a Childers, so I think you are right in suspecting
that some AS7E families are the result of relatively recent adoptions.

Other families like Ward (which is atypical) seem distant enough to me to
predate the age of surnames, but then I don't do statistical analysis. One
AS7E Ward who was tested by Family Tree claims descent from a family living
in Stretton, Rutland in the late 16th century. Other researchers claim
this family lived in Northampton, Northants. From what I've seen posted on
the Internet, I think one or the other is probably correct, and in either
case we're talking roughly about the same part of England.

I've mentioned before that the probable ancestors of the AS7E Childers were
born at Leeds (actually the village of Hunslett), Yorkshire in the early
17th century and that they settled in the same part of Henrico Co, VA where
my Britton ancestor lived a generation later. In the early 18th century,
whether by coincidence or design, the Storrs family from Hunslett settled
in the same part of Henrico-in fact (and this part would be coincidence, I
think) on property adjacent to land still owned by a member of the Britton
family. The Storrs called their plantation Hunslett Hall.

There are four haplotypes in OGAP which could be AS7E, one matching
Britton with 15 at 19 and the other three matching the modal. Probabilities that
the seven marker haplotype matching Britton is AS7E appears to be only about
25%, so I rather doubt it is AS7E. There is a 10 marker haplotype at
Oxford Ancestors with the same mutation at DYS 19, belonging to Anthony W.
Burgess from Australia, who may the same Anthony W. Burgess in the Burgess
project at Family Tree, and it turns out he is not AS7E.

The probability that any one of the three 10 marker haplotypes in OGAP
matching the AS7E modal--all from the London area--is about 50%, but even if
they are AS7E, I would rate the probability that their ancestors were living
in London in the 17th century or before as extremely low.

Because he had an unusual name, I was able to find the address of one man
who was tested at Oxford Ancestry and matched the 10 marker modal for AS7E.
He said that his male line ancestors lived in Leicestershire in the 19th
century, but wasn't sure about his surname, since his great grandmother was
married twice and children by the first marriage may have taken the second
husband's name. Both names, he said, were common in Leicestershire.

I have also discovered a website detailing the history of a Glover family
from Birmingham which may also be AS7E, but the only representative of this
family has been tested at the 12 marker level.


The fact that the single non-English member of AS7E group is a Lindeborg
from Sweden plus your 1300 MRCA calculation plus possible hits in
Leicestershire, Northants, and Staffordshire suggests to me the possibility of
Danish ancestry, which would be consistent with an origin in the eastern
midlands in the vicinity of the Five Boroughs; however, of all the information
collected this far, I must admit that the Childers ancestry somehow seems
most compelling. That two families from the village of Hunslett in
Yorkshire should have settled in the same part of Henrico Co., albeit nearly 75
years apart, suggests to me the likelihood of other, unidentified immigrants
from that same area. On the other hand, Northampton and vicinity could
still be more likely as a point of origin for this small clan.

The name Britton, by the way, was found in Northants, Staffordshire,
Warwick, and Yorkshire in the first generations after the Conquest.

I'd be grateful for any thoughts you may have on this subject.

Lindsey Britton

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