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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Question for Ken RE: AS7E
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:16:43 -0700
References: <25cb2.33a40339.38b1800f@aol.com>


All I can tell you is the coalescence age I get for the 29 haplotypes of
AS7E. About 11 of them have all 67 markers.

I get 1200 years.


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: [DNA] Question for Ken RE: AS7E


> I'd be interested to know whether you have any ideas about AS7E.
>
> You once said you thought the subgroup could be younger than the age of
> surnames and might be the result either of mass adoptions or a
> promiscuous
> male somewhere in history. Then later, you calculated time to MRCA as
> approximately 1300 years but indicated it could be as recent as 1000
> years ago.
>
> I have since been collecting any information I could find on the ancestry
> of AS7E families, which unfortunately, isn't much; however, I have run
> into
> several men who match the Childers family closely and believe or know that
> their male ancestor was a Childers, so I think you are right in
> suspecting
> that some AS7E families are the result of relatively recent adoptions.
>
> Other families like Ward (which is atypical) seem distant enough to me to
> predate the age of surnames, but then I don't do statistical analysis.
> One
> AS7E Ward who was tested by Family Tree claims descent from a family
> living
> in Stretton, Rutland in the late 16th century. Other researchers claim
> this family lived in Northampton, Northants. From what I've seen posted
> on
> the Internet, I think one or the other is probably correct, and in either
> case we're talking roughly about the same part of England.
>
> I've mentioned before that the probable ancestors of the AS7E Childers
> were
> born at Leeds (actually the village of Hunslett), Yorkshire in the early
> 17th century and that they settled in the same part of Henrico Co, VA
> where
> my Britton ancestor lived a generation later. In the early 18th century,
> whether by coincidence or design, the Storrs family from Hunslett settled
> in the same part of Henrico-in fact (and this part would be coincidence, I
> think) on property adjacent to land still owned by a member of the
> Britton
> family. The Storrs called their plantation Hunslett Hall.
>
> There are four haplotypes in OGAP which could be AS7E, one matching
> Britton with 15 at 19 and the other three matching the modal.
> Probabilities that
> the seven marker haplotype matching Britton is AS7E appears to be only
> about
> 25%, so I rather doubt it is AS7E. There is a 10 marker haplotype at
> Oxford Ancestors with the same mutation at DYS 19, belonging to Anthony W.
> Burgess from Australia, who may the same Anthony W. Burgess in the Burgess
> project at Family Tree, and it turns out he is not AS7E.
>
> The probability that any one of the three 10 marker haplotypes in OGAP
> matching the AS7E modal--all from the London area--is about 50%, but even
> if
> they are AS7E, I would rate the probability that their ancestors were
> living
> in London in the 17th century or before as extremely low.
>
> Because he had an unusual name, I was able to find the address of one man
> who was tested at Oxford Ancestry and matched the 10 marker modal for
> AS7E.
> He said that his male line ancestors lived in Leicestershire in the 19th
> century, but wasn't sure about his surname, since his great grandmother
> was
> married twice and children by the first marriage may have taken the second
> husband's name. Both names, he said, were common in Leicestershire.
>
> I have also discovered a website detailing the history of a Glover family
> from Birmingham which may also be AS7E, but the only representative of
> this
> family has been tested at the 12 marker level.
>
> _http://sites.google.com/site/glovergen/_
> (http://sites.google.com/site/glovergen/)
>
> The fact that the single non-English member of AS7E group is a Lindeborg
> from Sweden plus your 1300 MRCA calculation plus possible hits in
> Leicestershire, Northants, and Staffordshire suggests to me the
> possibility of
> Danish ancestry, which would be consistent with an origin in the eastern
> midlands in the vicinity of the Five Boroughs; however, of all the
> information
> collected this far, I must admit that the Childers ancestry somehow
> seems
> most compelling. That two families from the village of Hunslett in
> Yorkshire should have settled in the same part of Henrico Co., albeit
> nearly 75
> years apart, suggests to me the likelihood of other, unidentified
> immigrants
> from that same area. On the other hand, Northampton and vicinity could
> still be more likely as a point of origin for this small clan.
>
> The name Britton, by the way, was found in Northants, Staffordshire,
> Warwick, and Yorkshire in the first generations after the Conquest.
>
> I'd be grateful for any thoughts you may have on this subject.
>
> Lindsey Britton
>
>
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