Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266721520

From: "Belinda Dettmann" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] (no subject) - when is a MOORE not a MOORE?
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:05:20 +1100
References: <><6AA2184FE7774606A2F99D85F0BEE93F@HP>

Hi Cornelia

I've constructed a Fluxus Network diagram of relationships for Moores
in Group 2 (for 37 markers) and I believe your husband is a bona fide
Moore who belongs to this Group. I think the founding haplotype for
this group is either 71529 or 123490 and your husband is 3 mutations
away from 123490 and 4 away from 71529.

Group 2 is quite a compact group - I'd love to know how FTDNA does the
grouping - and I'm pretty sure he's in it. I've also had a look at a
diagram for all R1b Moores with 37 markers. It's large and messy, but
Group 2 comes up as a distinct group and well separated from other

I'll send you a message offline so you can see the details of what
I've done.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] (no subject) - when is a MOORE not a MOORE?

> CeCe is correct. You are a member of the MOORE project because your
> husband
> joined the MOORE project, which is the correct project for him to be
> in because
> his surname is MOORE.
> You and I have messaged extensively offline, and -- if Jim Bullock
> will forgive
> me -- may I recommend that you join the Y-DNA-PROJECTS mailing list,
> where you
> will have an audience that is focused on just such issues as you
> have raised?
> Having examined your husband's results, I suspect he either has an
> NPE in his
> patrilineal line or he belongs to a rare MOORE family, of which he's
> the only
> one so far tested. I invite you to discuss this further on
> and when we can determine what his *biological* surname is, you can
> join that
> surname project, too, but you should also remain in the MOORE
> project. (Some
> admins may differ with me on that point.)
> As a general comment... My experience has been that most surnames
> not only have
> multiple origins, they have considerably more origins than most
> genealogists
> previously suspected, not to mention the unsuspected NPEs, and these
> are being
> revealed by Y-DNA testing. So, it is not unusual for a surname
> project to have
> several groups that "hang together" -- often with each group
> representing
> descendants of one well-known immigrant -- plus a considerable
> number who have
> no match in the project and remain "unassigned." Some of these
> unassigned
> members are going to turn out to simply be members of rare families
> of that
> surname, but some are going to turn out to have NPEs. So...
> If you don't have a match in your surname, but do have some
> *high-level* matches
> in other surnames, it may be time to take a closer look at them.
> Lastly, we are each the primary person responsible for educating
> ourselves
> sufficiently to understand our test results. That said, the person
> primarily
> responsible for helping you to educate yourself and helping you to
> understand
> your results is the administrator of your surname project. That
> service is a
> major reason for being tested in a project at FTDNA, as opposed to
> other labs,
> where such assistance may be nil. Yes, FTDNA has a responsibility
> for answering
> basic questions about your testing (e.g., What does the WAMH logo on
> my page
> mean? Why are my results being delayed?), but unraveling the
> genealogical
> meaning of your test results is really beyond what you can expect
> from their
> staff. And if your project admin isn't helping you enough, do try
> asking on the
> Y-DNA-PROJECTS list. ;-)
> Diana
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: On Behalf Of
>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 4:52 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [DNA] (no subject)
>> my husband finally got another couple (father and son? brothers?
>> cousins?) of matches to his ydna at FTdna....once more, not his
>> surname, once more, Scottish surnames.
>> if he had an NPE, why did FTdna put him in with the
>> Moore group? for
>> all I can see, he is from a line that joined a sept and took their
>> name...or has an NPE and was incorrectly filed at Moore-Worldwide.
>> I asked FTdna but lately I haven't got any replies to
>> my questions
>> to them.
>> he is R6ZNW. he has 8 mutations against group 2 of the
>> Moore list,
>> which is the Moore group he most closely matches to. he has 8
>> matches
>> at 33/37, which are his closest matches other than 1 match at
>> 60/67.
>> those 8 matches include 2 Blackwells, 2 Moores, 2 Montgomery's, 1
>> Holcombe, and 1 Kirkpatrick.
>> I have been totally thrown by the 2 new additions of
>> non Moores.
>> his parents are dead. he has 2 brothers, I don't know
>> if they can
>> afford and are willing to test.
>> can someone help me figure him out by what information
>> is available
>> at ydna and Moore ydna test results?
>> thank you,
>> Cornelia
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