Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1266941952

From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] : low variance MRCA dates for P310 clades in Italy and SEEurope
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:19:12 +0000 (GMT)
References: <><009901cab349$8797d6a0$5e82af48@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <009901cab349$8797d6a0$5e82af48@Ken1>

To return to this single issue, what do people think of Tim's low MRCA variance dates in the south of Europe for three P310 downstream clades and (if they are familiar with it) similar results illustrated on an ht15 diversity map posted a few weeks ago on various DNA web lists in the aftermath of the recent paper linking R1b1b2 to the Neolithic?  There has been some debate about whether R1b1b2 took a Mediterranean or central European route west from SE Europe.  Well, assuming that we are not hitting sampling issues or other demographic effects, this surely provides food for thought and points to the central European route west for P310 and derived clades at least.  A block of relatively young MRCA ht15 in Italy and SE Europe/SW Asia (and fairly low in the west Mediterranean too)  would really not support a Mediterranean route west for ht15.  It is important to separate ht15 from ht35 as they seem to have had entirely different histories of spread
westwards and pooling them seems to obscure the low variance in SE Europe, Italy and to a lesser degree the rest of the Mediterranean Europe.  .

Any thoughts on this?  If this is true then its a new piece in the jigsaw and this is helpful in terms of trying to narrow down possible archaeological matches for such a pattern.  Essentially we would be looking only at east-west movements that passed through central Europe, starting somewhere in the east/east-central area (or perhaps Balkans) and arriving late in south-west Europe and much later still into Italy and the SE by a spread/back-migration at an entirely different late period.  I think the implications of young MRCA dates for ht15 R1b1b2 in Italy and the SE is of major interest in terms of the history of most western European R1b and am surprised it is not drawing more comment - may just be King Tut is more interesting :0)


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