GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1267270820
From: Margaret Jordan <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] DNA] The British Isles DNA Project
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:40:20 +0000
Thank you for your suggestions and analysis. I agree that members of the
Ireland yDNA Project could do with more information. I will see what can
be done about this.
Anatole Klyosov wrote:
>> From: Margaret Jordan <>
>> I am involved in administering theIreland yDNA Project and we also have a
>> lot of data (over 3,500 members). We focus on the R1b1bs and put them into
>> subclades groups as much as possible. Anatole, what would you suggest?
> Dear Margaret,
> I took a look at your list, it is quite impressive. A lot of things can be
> done with the data. What would I suggest? Well, nothing really new. I would
> suggest to provide the contributors with their "place" in the haplotype
> universe, not with just a line in some 3,500-line list.
> Let me explain. As a quickie thing, I took the R1a1 set from your list. The
> set contains 37 of 67-marker haplotypes. I have composed a haplotype tree of
> those 37 R1a1 haplotypes, which quite visibly splits into three branches.
> One branch embraced "Scandinavian" R1a1 haplotypes (14 out of total 37, that
> is 38%). Their base (presumably ancestral) haplotype was 13 25 15 11 11 14
> 12 12 10 13 11 30 in the 12-marker FTDNA format. Of course, I got it in the
> 67-marker format. A common ancestor of that branch lived 2125+/-370 years
> before present (if to calculate from the first 25 markers) or 2275+/-320
> years bp (if to calculate from the first 37 markers). This is the end of the
> BC. I can only conjecture that it might have been Cimmerians (R1a1) who had
> invaded Europe from the East and threatened the Roman Republic in the late
> 2nd century BC, and then, after being defeated, moved to Scandinavia. A
> colleague of mine, Igor Rozhanskii, is currently studying into their DNA
> genealogy. Their descendants on your list are ## 662, 671, 672, 690, 692,
> 698, 711-713, 716, 717, 725, 727, 728. Some of them might be excited to
> learn about their possible ancestry.
> Another branch is what I call "the Tenths", with DYS388=10. There are 8 of
> the Tenths on the list. They form their distinct branch. A common ancestor
> of those eight lived 2950+/-450 years before present, and he had the
> following haplotype: 13 25 16 10 11 14 12 10 10 13 11 30 (again, I have the
> 67-marker base haplotype).
> In fact, their common ancestor in Europe lived some 2,000 years earlier, and
> those 8 haplotypes represent just a partial selection, maybe related just to
> The rest of the tree, 14 more haplotypes, have the following base 12-marker
> haplotype: 13 25 16 10 11 14 12 12 10 13 11 30. A common ancestor of the
> branch lived 4675+/-660 years before present. It is actually a mix of the
> Central European base haplotype and the Russian Plain base haplotype. Those
> 14 haplotypes do not provide a good resolution, still, it is rather
> informative in this situation.
> Of course, a thousand (or more) of 67-marker R1b1+ haplotypes would give a
> much better resolved haplotype tree. All subclades with be there, and some
> would be nicely resolved in terms of timespans to their common ancestors, as
> well as geography of subclades. It is a wealth of information.
> I am a proponent of the "molecular history", in which a principal tool is
> not a shovel and a brush, but the DNA molecule. Your list is a powerful
> source for that molecular history study. Please keep doing a good and
> important work.
> Anatole Klyosov
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