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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1267391936


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] : low variance MRCA dates for P310
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:18:56 -0700
References: <201002282056.o1SKuq1q024844@mail.rootsweb.com>


BV9 and BV12 are the self variance coalescence age estimates for the two
separate clades.
This could be verified by just tracing what the spreadsheet tabulates and
combines. Note: there is no place for assumed founding haplotype on the
spreadsheet, so that is the tip-off that a clade TMRCA from assumed founding
haplotype is not being made.

BV529 is the TMRCA age estimate for (common to) the two clades.

BY529 is the conservative PURELY statistical 1 sigma confidence interval
associated with the estimate in BV529.
By "conservative" is meant the assumption we can neglect the bushy
dispersions in the two clades and evaluate the statistical flucuations
in a completely "V" tree from today['s clade A to today's clade B. The
bushy parts of A and B clades would help reduce that sigma estimate if we
knew the tree structure within the two bushes.






----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Janzen" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] : low variance MRCA dates for P310


> Dear Ken,
> When I refer to an intraclade TMRCA estimate I am essentially
> referring to what you give as output with your Generations4 program in
> cells
> BV9 and BV12. When I refer to an interclade TMRCA estimate I am
> essentially
> referring to what you give as output with your program in cell BV529 in
> your
> Generations4 program even though I don't generally use the same program
> that
> you do. What do you call the output of cell BV529 in your Generations4
> program and what do you call the output of cells BV9 and BV12 in your
> Generations4 program?
> Sincerely,
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Ken Nordtvedt
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:40 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] : low variance MRCA dates for P310
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anatole Klyosov" <>
>
> There is no reason to redefine them without a
>> good (and a non-practical) reason.
>
> [[ TMRCA is estimated for clades by average variance or GD from an assumed
> founding haplotype.
>
> Coalescence or Divergence age estimate of a clade is made from the average
> tmrca of the N(N-1)/2 pairs of haplotypes of the sample collection.
>
> The latter will be less than the former. I am sorry if the difference of
> those two entities, conceptually or computationally, can not be seen.
> KN]]
>
>
>
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