Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-02 > 1267412364

From: Robert Stafford <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and U106 Deep Clade Results
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:59:24 -0600
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

The differences at DYS390 and DYS460 are not really important, since they
are probably fairly recent. It is intereting that the likely ancestral
haplotypes, (the modals) of the two groups differ on only two markers. We
might suspect that there were two different progenitors who adopted the same
surname from the Y-STR results alone. It is not common to have two
apparently early mutations on moderately slow markers with just 37 markers
within the same surname.

The analysis of results is clearer when comparing living to ancestral rather
than living to living. The modal is a tentative ancestral for undocumented
lineages. I copied your results from ancestry to a spreadsheet, separated
the two groups and entered the modals on the line above each. I highlighted
each difference. I count mismatches, rather than the GD that FTDNA uses. A
GD greater than 1 is more likely due to one event in genealogical time
frames. It also counts a recLOH as one event.

All of the participants with 10,10 on DYS391 and Y-GATA-H4, except 58344,
seem to fit. He differs on 6 markers, when 3 is the usual limit for a near
match on 37 markers. He would need to test another branch to see if any of
the mutations are recent. He is a prime candidate for subclade testing.

The 11,11 group has 6 people with 4 - 5 mismatches to its modal. There are
also 2 who tested 25 markers with 3 mismatches. These are gray areas and
warrant further testing.

Bob Stafford

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:28 AM, Margaret Jordan <>wrote:

> I have been surprised by Deep Clade test results for two members in the
> O'Shea yDNA Project. Two individuals are only a genetic distance of 4
> apart on 37 markers (FTDNA) and they have the same surname and their
> ancestors come from the same county in Ireland (Kerry). One has tested
> L21+ and the other tested U106+.
> The person who is L21+:
> DYS390=24
> DYS391=10
> DYS 460=11
> DYS GATA H4=10
> and person who is U106+ has:
> DYS390=23
> DYS391=11
> DYS460=12
> DYS GATA H4=11
> DYS391 and DYS GATA H4 do seem to form a pattern with one "half" of the
> Kerry Group having a value of 10 on DYS391 and a value of 10 on DYS GATA
> H4 while the other "half" has values 11 and 11 respectively.
> Other members of the project have tested L21+ and further testing is now
> being done to see if the 106+ result is widespread and if it follows the
> DYS391 & GATA H4 pattern of STR results.
> Does anyone have any thoughts on the above?
> Margaret Jordan
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This thread: