Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1267468673

From: Michael Walsh <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 and U106 Deep Clade Results
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:37:53 -0600

---> My response:


I'll contact you directly. Kirsten Saxe referred this to me as she
noticed an additional STR "signature" while looking at the O'Shea
surname project that might be factor. I am project administrator for
a group with this signature known as the "11-13 Combo."

>From the O'Shea project Kerry Group, 89170 is the R-L21* tested fellow
but unfortunately he didn't test through 67 markers. However, he is
identical with 111724 through 37 markers, except at 439. I compared
111724 through 67 markers with the whole R-L21* haplotype data set
that is available. Of the ten closest Genetic Distances to 111724,
nine guys are from the R-L21 11-13 Combo variety and one from the
425=null O'Calla variety.

I checked the R-U106 guy in the same group, 34730, against the R-L21*
data as well. I come up with the same ten guys as closest GD's. It
would really help if a few more people from both the possible
"branches" tested out to 67 markers and did the deep Clade R package
testing. Only two people of the 39 in the O'Shea Kerry Group have
been been deep clade R tested. Not that many have tested to 67
markers, but the ones who have fit the 11-13 Combo signature.

I also reviewed the R-U106 project and found (visual check only) that
only six of 845 haplotypes have 617=13. Almost all of the rest were
the WAMH mode of 12. Of the six, they were all modal at 406s1, which
is 10. At least to-date, the O'Shea R-U106 34730 seems to be the only
identified R-U106 guy with 11-13 (actually 12-13 in his case.) That
is quite possible, though. More O'Shea's of Kerry need to get deep
clade tested.

One other thing that is probably more amusing than significant but is
interesting and hits close to home for me. One of the folks in this
Kerry group, a Shay, is from Tirawley of Co. Mayo rather Co. Kerry.
There is a cluster of 11-13 Combo Barrett's from Co. Mayo. They have
an old poem, "The Welshmen of Tirawley", where the Barrett's and the
Walsh's are said to be descended from a Cambro-Norman invader of
Ireland, c.1170 AD.


---> Margaret Jordan <>wrote:

> I have been surprised by Deep Clade test results for two members in the
> O'Shea yDNA Project. Two individuals are only a genetic distance of 4
> apart on 37 markers (FTDNA) and they have the same surname and their
> ancestors come from the same county in Ireland (Kerry). One has tested
> L21+ and the other tested U106+.
> The person who is L21+:
> DYS390=24
> DYS391=10
> DYS 460=11
> DYS GATA H4=10
> and person who is U106+ has:
> DYS390=23
> DYS391=11
> DYS460=12
> DYS GATA H4=11
> DYS391 and DYS GATA H4 do seem to form a pattern with one "half" of the
> Kerry Group having a value of 10 on DYS391 and a value of 10 on DYS GATA
> H4 while the other "half" has values 11 and 11 respectively.
> Other members of the project have tested L21+ and further testing is now
> being done to see if the 106+ result is widespread and if it follows the
> DYS391 & GATA H4 pattern of STR results.
> Does anyone have any thoughts on the above?
> Margaret Jordan

This thread: