Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1267635492

From: Barbara Stabley <>
Subject: [DNA] Subject: Re: DYS464X and DYF399X
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:58:12 -0800 (PST)

Hi Kirsten and John:  Thanks for your remarks and help.  I'll order the test(s) recommended and try to register at the 464x2c2g project.  I'll also try getting in touch with the Hammer lister.
---------  replying to ------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 02:44:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [DNA] DYS464X and DYF399X
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Barb

Even though your son is technically cggc, he still qualifies for the 464xccgg project, which is also known as the 464x2c2g project. I recently retitled it just to get across the point that the numbers of c and g type alleles are generally more important than the order in which they are reported. I found his haplotype in the R-L21 Plus project, and it does share more of the key marker values that most members of the large mostly ccgg Leinster Cluster tend to share than you would expect to find matching by coincidence, but it also misses on a number of them. So maybe your son is related to the Leinster Cluster in some way, but it might be a distant connection. If you enroll him in the project, I can more easily compare his results to the results of other project members and that might tell us something. I notice that the results for your son and the Hammers descendant who is listed immediately above him on the R-L21 Plus project tables are very similar. It
might be a good idea!
  to try to get that man DYS464X tested, too.

The DYF399X test might make sense for your son, and so might the L159 SNP test. I need to think about those options.

People usually have trouble finding our project because it is classified as a Y DNA geographical project starting with the number 4, so I'm posting a link:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Stabley" <>

I was waiting for this to come up, so I could ask about my son's test results for DYS 464X, which are 15c 16g 16g 17c. He tests R1b1b2a1b5 and belongs to the L21 plus and R-P312 projects. His L226 result was negative. FTDNA Kit # 149770. His father or grandfather were a NPE, so the surname is irrelevant. Are there other tests I should do for him? The 399X? The Family Finder test is on my future list.

Barb Stabley


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:26:55 -0500
From: John S Walden <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] DYS464X and DYF399X
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Barb wrote "Are there other tests I should do for him? The 399X? The Family
Finder test is on my future list."

I looked in detail at your haplotype and here are my thoughts

IF you are a part of the Leinster cluster then  there is good new and bad
The good news is there are a lot of talented people paying a lot of
attention to the cluster
The bad news is because there are so many men in the cluster that even a
close match at 67 markers does not mean you are related in the last several
hundred years

My specific thoughts are these
Your son's GD from our modal is 19 or 20 - I think that would make it the
largest of all the confirmed members
The value of 15 at DYS392 is two off our modal of 13 and we do not even have
a 14 in the project

Our DYS464 modal is 15c 15c 17g 17g  - If we assume that is the starting
and your son has 15c 17c 16g 15g  note I kept the ccgg order to calculate
The GD for just DYS464 is 4

Thus I estimate you are L159- and not a part of the cluster.

RE Are there other tests I should do for him?

Yes the L159 SNP

RE  The 399X   Not needed

All you need to look for a match at 67 markers is
GD <=7   DYS 392 of 14,15 or 16
and  not cccg at 464x

John W

This thread: