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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1267649103


From: Tom Gull <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Danish "homeland" of Viking Era emigrants toEastern England and Normandy
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:45:03 -0500
References: <ea3bd9561003021130r7ce1e8c0na0195ecbc243dd3f@mail.gmail.com>,<SNT131-w18ED8CB2E907B9C7D4B841BC3B0@phx.gbl>,<ea3bd9561003030920r426ea707rf9476b9408f21eba@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <ea3bd9561003030920r426ea707rf9476b9408f21eba@mail.gmail.com>


That is the paper relating to Alpine Austria but it actually had a larger sample than the one I thought I was referencing <g>. I was talking about Myles et al that showed a similar value for Austria without pinning any location. It had the low Ns close to the Danish data you were sharing. They were roundly discounted by everyone who believed the only possible hotspot for U106 was the Netherlands, and specifically discounted because the sample was so small. Having the Neiderstatter study show about the same U106 percentage was a surprise to many because they had discounted the earlier study. Of course, a real in-depth study would be needed to confirm either or both of the prior ones.

> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:20:55 -0800
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Danish "homeland" of Viking Era emigrants to Eastern England and Normandy
>
> Tom,
>
> Alpine Austria is a "special case". It was part of Rhaetia, a region that
> was always culturally and perhaps genetically different from the surrounding
> communities. There is some evidence that large numbers of Etruscans moved
> there after the Celtic incursions - which may explain the high instance of
> haplogroup G there. It may also have been a hotspot for incoming Germanic
> peoples from the Baltic. Rome created a separate province of Rhaetia
> reflecting the population structure at the time. "Hotspots" for most
> haplogroups will occur in more than one area and it is not particularly
> surprizing that Rhaetia differs from Lombardy and may tell us something of
> the genetic history of each region - hence the importance of regional sample
> - as I have said, particularly in Denmark.
>
> The study you are speaking of is that of Neiderstatter et al. (2007) which
> only samples Innsbruck deep in Rhaetia. I have discussed this paper in one
> of my manuscripts and will review it again in due course. As I recall
> R-U152 made up about 10% of the sample - which is not terribly surprising to
> me (although if only 10% was found in the Black Forest region I would be
> "shocked to my bootstraps").
>
> David K. Faux.
>
> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Tom Gull <> wrote:
>
> >
> > It's all about the signal to noise ratio at such low numbers. If you can be
> > convinced of all of that by such low volumes, then you must also be very
> > accepting of the concept that Alpine Austria is a U106+ hotspot equal to the
> > Netherlands. That's based on the earlier study (not personal test data
> > mining) that showed U106+ to be something like almost 70% of R1b1c there.
> > But I seem to recall that similarly sized numbers there were discarded as
> > being too small a sample to be believable...
> >
> >
>
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