Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1267802054

From: SVass <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] L4 added to ISOGG
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:14:14 -0800
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Dear Tim,
Thank you for confirming one part of my analysis.
The FTDNA R-U152 project has only three 67 marker L4 positives who are members of the same cluster (in which I have at least 12 different surnames) and thus their coalescence age only provides a distance to their common ancestor and not an estimate for the age of the SNP. The fourth person (5TA43 at ysearch) is a genetic distance of 10 from the first at 37 markers and his newly proven L4 cluster has about the same number of surnames. All appear to be (with most known to be of) Eastern European Jewish descent and therefore, neither the surname nor the shtetl/country of their paternal ancestor has any ancient significance.

In this second cluster, I now have three SNP tested individuals (two have 37 markers and one 25) and I found a fourth untested who is a near match and has 67 markers measured. (His 38 through 67 are an additional four markers apart from the first cluster.) This cluster has a coalescence age similar to that of the first. This differing cluster for the last individual explains the age growth in your last estimate set from your first. (From my original email: The estimate to the common ancestor for each separate cluster is around 600 to 1000 years.)

regards Sam Vass

On Mar 4, 2010, Tim Janzen wrote:

> There are only 4 R-L4+ haplotypes in the FTDNA R-U152 project at
> The countries of origin are only given for two of them: Latvia and Ukraine. The surnames of the other two would suggest that they came from Eastern
> Europe, Russia, or Ukraine. One of these two (Broniatowski) was apparently from Poland per David Faux' database. I did an intraclade coalescence age
> estimate on the 3 67-marker haplotypes and got the following results:
> 50 markers: 457
> 24 slow markers: 694
> I also ran an intraclade coalescence age estimate on the 4 37-marker haplotypes and got the following results:
> 25 markers: 1113
> 10 YHRD markers using YHRD mutation rates: 1362
> Based on relatively few haplotypes it would appear that the R-L4 SNP occurred less than 2000 years ago. When taken in conjunction with all of
> the other available data about R-U152, I would suggest that R-L4 likely originated somewhere in Eastern Europe and probably not in the Levant.

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