Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268079438

From: peter spencer <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Danish "homeland" of Viking Era emigrants to EasternEngland and Normandy
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 14:17:18 -0600
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

DAVID... since you have already published long articles pronouncing yourself
not just as a Dane, but specifically as a TRIBAL CIMBRI descendant-

its frankly a little late to offer up 'evidence' to support aearlier theory
of yours, that was offered with this type of very long-winded but short on
fact tactic.
No offense sir, but nothing you say on this subject is credible absent very
solid and irrefutable fact as you have a history of arranging certain
anecdotal or totally presumptive assertions to support your own ancestral

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:30 PM, David Faux <> wrote:

> In looking at the place name evidence for Scandinavian settlement in both
> Eastern England and Normandy, the patterning looks rather similar. The
> clustering is very "tight" and extends into the areas which the historical
> records tell us were parceled out to chiefs and warriors led by for example
> Rollo in Normandy and Guthrum in East Anglia. These areas were both
> considered to be conquered by Danes (although allowing for a contribution
> from Norway and to a lesser degree Sweden - in an era when national
> boundaries were almost constantly shifting). Circa 900 AD "Denmark"
> included what is today the not only Denmark by Skane and Oestfold in
> Sweden,
> and Vestfold up Oslofjord to Lillehammer and surrounds.
> What can a Danish regional Y chromosome haplogroup analysis tell us about
> settlement in the areas of expansion and conquest? My study of R-U152 led
> to conclude that there was a probable link between the Eastern aspect of
> the
> Jutland Penninsula and its extension on the Island of Fyn, with Eastern
> England and Normandy. So what is the haplogroup break down in this region
> of Denmark. That is an interesting question in itself since with the
> exception of Borglum et al. (2007), which has serious "depth of genotyping"
> problems, not one single population genetics study has taken a regional
> view
> of Denmark. Actually there is a paucity of any Y chromosome data at all
> pertaining to that country. At present our best option is the Denmark
> geographical project I
> used only the mapped data and did a rough tabulation of the haplogroups in
> Eastern Denmark - east of the old military road largely following the head
> of the fjords from south to north and included Fyn. The breakdown is as
> follows (N=45):
> I1 - 19
> R1b1c - 14 (8 not SNP tested)
> R1b1b2a1b4 (R-U152) = 4
> R1b1b2a1b3 (R-SRY2627) = 1
> R1b1b2a1a (R-U106) = 1
> I2b - 4
> R1a1 - 2
> G2 - 2
> J2 - 2
> I2a - 1
> E1b - 1
> I1 is the overwhelming "leader", and R-U152 and I2b are distant seconds.
> However, if the R1b1b2 undifferentiated are SNP tested it is highly likely
> that R-U152 will be a strong contender but only in this area of Denmark
> (Jutland and Fyn) where I1 predominates. It is highly important that Danes
> who have not been deep clade tested take the plunge - the percentage who
> have done so is remarkably small. What is surprising (to me) is that very
> low showing of R-U106. It appears to have a much larger representation on
> the more eastern Danish regions in Sealand (Sjaelland) where Copenhagen is
> situated. Since R-U106 is much more widespread in the British Isles than
> R-U152, it may have been one of the primary components of the Anglo-Saxon
> invasions 350 years earlier - arriving from Schleiswig - Holstein,
> Friesland, and Saxony where it is still heavily concentrated today
> (certainly in the Friesland - North Holland areas).
> It is much to early to conclude anything about the haplogroup structure of
> Normandy since this geographial project was just begun a couple of months
> ago. At the moment the haplotype composition shows R-L21 with a commanding
> lead. Of course playing against this background, this Project holds the
> promise of answering some questions about the similarities of the
> haplogroup
> structure here in relation to various regions in Denmark. There "should"
> be
> a spike in I1 in Normandy in relation to surrounding regions if the Danes
> made a significant impact on the population structure of Normandy as
> suggested by place names (which of course can be interpreted in a number of
> ways). However without a doubt there was some Scandinavian influence on
> the
> Y genetics of the area, it is only the type and amount that are in question
> - but this leaves huge uncertainties. There are to date five Normandy
> R-U152 shown in my database for that haplogroup. The closest of this
> haplogroup is the Champagne Region to the south. So is the R-U152 here a
> signal of Danish settlement, or much earlier influx of Celtic speakers from
> the south? Having a percentage of R1a1 somewhat less than half of the
> percentage of R-U152 would perhaps support a Danish hypothesis - more
> R-U152
> than R-L21 would not be in keeping with the hypothesis assuming L21 is
> found
> to be ubiquitous across northern France (yet to be demonstrated).
> In days gone by my predictions of R-U152 in Jutland and Fyn, based on the
> assumption that the Cimbri Tribe of the area were descendants of Celtic
> migrants from Southern Germany via the Elbe circa 500 BC, were universally
> criticized. It now appears, based on the above evidence that in fact the
> hypothesis had merit (much to the chagrin of many naysayers). Another
> prediction was that R-U152 would be found in Danish controlled Vestfold
> along Oslofjord. This too has been confirmed (with no R-U152 showing up
> elsewhere in Norway or Sweden). All three varieties of R-U152 are seen
> there (R-U152*, L2*, and L20). My R-U152 Database and the associated
> Google
> Maps (see show all of this in a clear
> fashion - and also include those tested by 23andMe.
> I feel very much vindicated by the data (clearly supporting the
> hypotheses),
> and no longer expect unrelenting criticism, but of course expect those with
> an axe to grind to take exception to something or other. So be it.
> David K. Faux.
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