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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268504302


From: Vincent Vizachero <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Clades, Definitions, Discoveries, FTDNA
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:18:22 -0500
References: <376447.73467.qm@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4B992A34.6060104@san.rr.com><FCA563F0-DD03-4B1E-A5ED-D1751792324B@vizachero.com><00e201cac145$82fec7c0$5e82af48@Ken1><59b150b1003111148g536d80e5he4ebb561c9048fc0@mail.gmail.com><017901cac159$4e6c7020$5e82af48@Ken1><086F1093A566477B815995B401BB889C@HP><3480483d1003111821h356097c0k9398df8feee1aaf5@mail.gmail.com><3b2a446a1003112252j5c16c392lc9fbf52e805e9407@mail.gmail.com><000601cac1f5$b5338040$5e82af48@Ken1><294168F50E07487A812B78EBD02BCBF4@HP><97305A05-75B3-44B6-8433-84FDB790890F@vizachero.com><BCC91D9EA86E43FCBF0F1AEAFB5CD7A7@HP><011b01cac212$8b6e9340$5e82af48@Ken1><65609D4617B84F15B9653A789115A218@HP><EB0C735B-E85F-4F51-BA57-737D0C92050B@vizachero.com><6D9FD7E250D74B4B8D0B779135D3520B@HP>
In-Reply-To: <6D9FD7E250D74B4B8D0B779135D3520B@HP>


I should clarify. My previous post may lead to the impression that
you are not wrong, but you are in one sense.

Clades are defined solely by ancestry, not by the presence or absence
of SNPs or other character trait.

A clade is a group containing an ancestor and all the descendants
thereof. Period. That clade exists whether or not we have discovered
a SNP to "define" it.

To maintain that there can be no clade except those associated with a
SNP is logically equivalent to arguing that a tree makes no sound when
it falls in an uninhabited forest.

VV


On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:01 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote:

> Y-DNA haplogroups (clades) are not defined by their demographic
> properties, they
> are defined by the polarity of their SNP mutations. They do not
> arise out of
> demographic conditions, they arise via mutation, and their
> boundaries are
> determined by their position on the Y-DNA SNP cladogram (haplotree).


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