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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268524112


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Clades,
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:48:32 -0700
References: <376447.73467.qm@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4B992A34.6060104@san.rr.com><FCA563F0-DD03-4B1E-A5ED-D1751792324B@vizachero.com><00e201cac145$82fec7c0$5e82af48@Ken1><59b150b1003111148g536d80e5he4ebb561c9048fc0@mail.gmail.com><017901cac159$4e6c7020$5e82af48@Ken1><086F1093A566477B815995B401BB889C@HP><3480483d1003111821h356097c0k9398df8feee1aaf5@mail.gmail.com><3b2a446a1003112252j5c16c392lc9fbf52e805e9407@mail.gmail.com><000601cac1f5$b5338040$5e82af48@Ken1><294168F50E07487A812B78EBD02BCBF4@HP><97305A05-75B3-44B6-8433-84FDB790890F@vizachero.com><BCC91D9EA86E43FCBF0F1AEAFB5CD7A7@HP><011b01cac212$8b6e9340$5e82af48@Ken1><65609D4617B84F15B9653A789115A218@HP><013801cac216$a3a77450$5e82af48@Ken1><D7C366EF2B1D47A89D465B482BD0B343@HP><AB2EC4B7-6A15-4AA7-BF02-026349415402@vizachero.com><0AAEE7A9F5B949C68C94CFFDA0716573@HP><68F765A7-DC40-4C25-B40C-2180ED7186F5@vizachero.com><24C7C69E735341B1B6B5ABAE63842C42@HP><D61ED81A-7B77-4386-A2B3-7C78A5E28615@vizachero.com><7885392ABBAE497! C94F02C30F9C72718@HP>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>


but [[ each specifically "haplogroup" KN ]] clade is defined by the
appearance of new
>derived SNP[s]

[[ There are clades for which we have no SNP mutations yet discovered to tag
the clade, but they are nevertheless clades, being seen by other means. And
"ancestral" versus "derived" can get dicey, although clear locally speaking.
SNPs mutate multiple times in the y tree; a few have already been discovered
which do so. One place the SNP goes from state alpha to state beta and
serves as tag or roadmark for one haplogroup or place in the tree, and then
elsewhere in the tree it may go from state beta to state alpha and serve as
tag or roadmark for another haplogroup or place in the tree; or there can be
multiple places in the tree where it changes from state alpha to state beta,
etc. As long as each occurrence of this SNP mutation in the tree can be
kept straight from the others using the other evidence about tree locality
as context, this is acceptable. KN]]



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