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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268529502


From: Vincent Vizachero <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Clades, Definitions, Discoveries, FTDNA
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:18:22 -0500
References: <376447.73467.qm@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4B992A34.6060104@san.rr.com><FCA563F0-DD03-4B1E-A5ED-D1751792324B@vizachero.com><00e201cac145$82fec7c0$5e82af48@Ken1><59b150b1003111148g536d80e5he4ebb561c9048fc0@mail.gmail.com><017901cac159$4e6c7020$5e82af48@Ken1><086F1093A566477B815995B401BB889C@HP><3480483d1003111821h356097c0k9398df8feee1aaf5@mail.gmail.com><3b2a446a1003112252j5c16c392lc9fbf52e805e9407@mail.gmail.com><000601cac1f5$b5338040$5e82af48@Ken1><294168F50E07487A812B78EBD02BCBF4@HP><97305A05-75B3-44B6-8433-84FDB790890F@vizachero.com><BCC91D9EA86E43FCBF0F1AEAFB5CD7A7@HP><011b01cac212$8b6e9340$5e82af48@Ken1><65609D4617B84F15B9653A789115A218@HP><013801cac216$a3a77450$5e82af48@Ken1><D7C366EF2B1D47A89D465B482BD0B343@HP><AB2EC4B7-6A15-4AA7-BF02-026349415402@vizachero.com><0AAEE7A9F5B949C68C94CFFDA0716573@HP><68F765A7-DC40-4C25-B40C-2180ED7186F5@vizachero.com><24C7C69E735341B1B6B5ABAE63842C42@HP><D61ED81A-7B77-4386-A2B3-7C78A5E28615@vizachero.com><7885392ABBAE49! 7C94F02C30F9C72718@HP>
In-Reply-To: <7885392ABBAE497C94F02C30F9C72718@HP>


You twist the focus here to the haplotree, because it suits your
goal. Fine.

But the "haplotree" is merely a subset of the true Y phylogeny. In
the real world, clades require no "SNP mutations" to define them.
They exist whether such SNPs exist or not.

That self-referential "cladists" are self-absorbed enough to believe
that the clade only exists AFTER they discover it is a source of
amusement to me and confusion to many.

VV



On Mar 13, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote:

> The clades on the Y-DNA haplotree are defined by the
> polarity of their SNP mutations, which is a succinct definition. A
> broader
> definition would be that Y-DNA haplogroup clades are defined by
> their placement
> on the Y-DNA cladogram as determined by a cladistic analysis of the
> polarity of
> their SNP mutations.


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