Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268787987

From: argiedude <>
Subject: [DNA] R1b1* and J* in Bali, Indonesia
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:06:27 -0300

The recent study of Indonesia by Karafet has found 2 samples of R1b1(xR1b1b2), in Bali, eastern Indonesia, and 3 samples of J(xJ1,J2), 1 in Vietnam and 2 in Bali.

R1b1* can't reasonably be explained as European origin, because the study only found 2 samples of R1b1b2, and R1b1* is at least 300 times less common than R1b1b2 in West Europe.

Another possibility is that these 2 samples are R1b1b1 (M73). Europe would once again be out of the question, but India maybe not. In Sengupta's 2006 study of India/Pakistan he tested for M73, M269, and M173 (R1). He tested 900 samples, and found 8 R1b1b1, but they were all from Hazara refugees from Afghanistan now living in Pakistan. I think we can discard these samples as not representative of the Indian sub-continent, so we're left with 0 R1b1b1. Another sample, from south Pakistan, was R1(xM17,M73,M269), but its haplotype strongly indicates it's really R1a, and perhaps was misclassified, or maybe it's R1a1, since the study looked at M17 but didn't investigate SRY10831. The sample had 392=11, which is very rare in R1b1b1 (M73), but is modal in R1a; it had 19=15, which is rare in M73 but common in R1a; and it had 439=10, which is unknown in R1b1b1 (out of 100 samples) but modal in R1a; so it's pretty safe to assume this is not M73 and is probably instead R1a1/R1a1a. And that leaves 0 R1b1b1 out of almost 900 Indian samples.

There were 3 samples of J(xJ1,J2), out of 18 total J samples. J* is extremely rare. Semino's 2004 study of haplogroup J tested 3,000 men, out of which 700 belonged to J, and of which absolutely none belonged to J*; they all fell into J1 or J2. Figure the odds of finding 3 J* out of just 18 J samples. Semino's study included 37 J samples from India/Pakistan.

There was one other (lesser) anomaly with the West Eurasian lineages found in this study of Southeast Asia. The study detected 20 H samples, of which 17 were H(xH1,H2). Back in India, the situation is the reverse: H1 plus H2 make up almost 90% of all H samples.

We've been talking about this study at Dienekes' blog. Go to Dienekes' blog and look for the thread: Major East-West divide in Indonesian Y chromosomes (March 07, 2010).

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