Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1268792314

From: Bob Hay <>
Subject: [DNA] S28 SNP - The ''Latin'' R1b
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:18:34 +1100

Peter Spencer wrote:

> Well I received my new SNP results, and im S28+ L2+.

Congratulations on joining the clan!

But do take note of what David Faux has to say about R-U152/S28 and its sub-clades. He has done more research than anyone else on this part of our haplogroup. His hypothesis is that R-U152/S28 was brought to Britain by the Vikings, but mostly to the Danelaw.

You are suggesting the Romans. But I speculate that there was another source, the Normans. In my case I am one of the Hays of Nairn, the progenitor being a Norman knight, William de la Haya (and spelling variations thereon) who took up residence at Lochloy in the Nairn district in Scotland in the 13th Century. In turn, his was a cadet branch of the very powerful Norman family, the Hays of Errol whose founder was also a William de la Haya. His ancestors came from the Cherbourg (Cotentin) Peninsula in Normandy and therefore could have been descendants of Vikings or even of local Celtic families pre-dating Duke Rollo and his sidekicks.

I have been told by local historians etc in Scotland that in Norman clans the surname indicates genetic descent - as contrasted with so-called "Celtic" clans in which fostering and other relationships often hid biological descent. This suggests to me that at least in Clan Hay we might expect to find plenty of R-U152/S28 and even R-L2, but so far I have not been able to find enough men tested for these SNPs to test my very speculative hypothesis.

Although the was Viking (Norse, not "Danish") contact along the Moray coast, there is no evidence of significant incursion in the Nairn region. I am therefore inclined to discount local Vikings as a source in the case of my Hay ancestors. The Romans of course did not venture so far into that part of Scotland but that does not mean that their descendents did not during say, the rapes and pillaging by Edward's men or more recently, by the Hannoverian army after the Jacobite uprisings. And of course, there is always NPEs to complicate the picture!

It is interesting to note that there were Hay men in Wales at least from the 16th Century or so (hotspot in Pembrokeshire) and that round about this time the important Campbell family and their retainers moved there from Nairnshire.

I wish I knew more Scottish and Norman history!


Bob Hay
at home at
H3EQG ~ R-L2* ~ HV9a

This thread: