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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1269040317


From: argiedude <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Map of Indian haplogroups in Indonesia
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:11:57 -0300
References: <BAY128-W29D7961D886B2561B0EA2BC82C0@phx.gbl>, ,<BAY128-W1872C5C2F2F332BC5258DC82A0@phx.gbl>, ,<CA999B8C-0C33-41E5-92FF-ED3AE3B88F64@vizachero.com>,<BAY128-W22293A1EE48092195868B8C82A0@phx.gbl>,<D49444AF-C54F-454A-8FE4-57D0FAC44852@vizachero.com>
In-Reply-To: <D49444AF-C54F-454A-8FE4-57D0FAC44852@vizachero.com>


> On Mar 18, 2010, at 10:01 PM, argiedude wrote:
>
> > Together with these 2 samples there were 2 samples of R1b1*.
>
> There were NO samples identified as R1b1*. The samples are
> R1b1(xM269). I'm just trying to ensure that the list is not misled by
> your mischaracterization.
>

That's not important. And I'm not forgetting about R1b1b1, I explained in my first posts that these Indonesian samples could belong to R1b1*/R1b1a or R1b1b1, and that either case is extremely hard to justify as due to some historic event.


>
> > And you're not considering the main point of my post.
>
> No, I just don't care about the "main point" of your post. What I
> care about is that you are telling people that R1b1* is found
> someplace where it wasn't. These samples (if they are even
> legitimate, which I honestly won't be sure of until I've seen the
> haplotypes or a second confirming study), could just as well be
> R1b1b1. And THAT, given the attested contact between Bali and China
> (among other places) would not be the least bit incredible.
>
> VV

It would actually be just as incredible as the other possible origins. R1b1b1 in Asia has a very distinctive value of 390=19, so it's very easy to determine how much R1b1b1 there is in China, and there's none. Out of 5,000 Chinese samples in yhrd, there isn't a single one that has 390=19. There were 4 Tibetans (out of 167) that had this value and belonged to R1b1b1. There's a secondary Asian cluster of R1b1b1, and maybe there are 1 or 2 samples of this clade out of the 5,000 Han Chinese samples in yhrd. It's not realistic that Indonesia's R1b1* or R1b1b1 would have come from China.

Most of China's y-dna O belongs to O3, while 85% of Indonesia's y-dna O belongs to O1 and O2. Chinese ancestry in Indonesia is limited, there's virtually no R1b1* or R1b1b1 in China, and we found 2 samples of R1b1*/R1b1b1.

Together with the even harder to explain presence of y-dna J* in Vietnam and Bali, and the sharp isocline right along Wallace's Line of the haplogroups of Indian origin, the case for a paleolithic presence of these lineages in Indonesia is looking very good.



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