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From: "Raymond Whritenour" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] [Bulk] Re: OT How many races are there?
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:02:50 -0400
References: <mailman.4026.1268867364.12642.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com><1395B0DF-5C60-4764-A58E-131083F09121@gmail.com><BLU126-DS16A4AF6938701A160AE11892290@phx.gbl><5FA85683-DFAC-43F9-A561-3E02D08D087E@vizachero.com><BLU126-DS13ED0188ABDF0EF766449092290@phx.gbl><SNT131-ds17F88D58C471F6F2F1BF9FBC290@phx.gbl><BLU126-DS773373D330F16C795176392290@phx.gbl><SNT131-ds13977CE9A6ECC0C26570FBBC290@phx.gbl><SNT131-ds4AA4E835162B7850B806BBC290@phx.gbl><BLU126-DS76551D51F618F85FCFADE92280@phx.gbl><SNT131-ds1105FF88830FE6600ED4B3BC280@phx.gbl><BLU126-DS12B87B0673565436DE8C9392280@phx.gbl><075895D5-8873-47CF-8A45-B00DCB09C59F@vizachero.com>
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What Steven Hsu means by race:

"Now plot the genome of each human as a point on our lattice. Not surprisingly, there are readily identifiable clusters of points, corresponding to traditional continental ethnic groups: Europeans, Africans, Asians, Native Americans, etc. (See, for example, Risch et al., Am. J. Hum. Genet. 76:268-275, 2005.) Of course, we can get into endless arguments about how we define European or Asian, and of course there is substructure within the clusters, but it is rather obvious that there are identifiable groupings, and as the Risch study shows, they correspond very well to self-identified notions of race."

See: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/01/metric-on-space-of-genomes-and.html<http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/01/metric-on-space-of-genomes-and.html>;

----- Original Message -----
From: Vincent Vizachero<mailto:>
To: <mailto:>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] [Bulk] Re: OT How many races are there?


Ray,

One problem with these superficially scientific posts is that never
really bother to define what they mean by "race". Regardless of
whether this slipperiness is intentional or just sloppy, it makes it
difficult to challenge someone who can't or won't be specific.

But the essential mistake that both Razib and Hsu make is that they
conflate genetic variation (which obviously exists) with the undefined
concept of race. When the self-professed proponents of race can't
keep their own arguments straight, I'm not sure how much effort to
expend critiquing them.

VV



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