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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-03 > 1269983481


From: "grandcross" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Sephardim or Moors ?
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:17:26 -0500
References: <816800.22849.qm@web25905.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <816800.22849.qm@web25905.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


I question the means and methods by which the researchers in Adams reached
their conclusions. Given the historical record of settlement by colonists
and invaders from before the Roman period to the early 16th century, the
presumption "Basques and the Gascons" were the original inhabitants of
Iberia so as to differentiate them from all others (incredibly labeled
"non-Iberians"), the detailed studies of conversion which are inapposite to
the premises assumed (see, inter alia. Bulliet, R.W. [1979] Conversion to
Islam in the medieval period: an essay in quantitative history [Harvard
University Press]), and the lead author's own reservations about how they
computed the percentage of Muslim and Jewish patrilineal ancestry, I don't
think much of this paper. As for haplogoup G and its supposed relationship
to Muslims and Jews, here is some of what can be found in Adams:

"An additional factor that could lead to overestimation of
Sephardic Jewish ancestry proportions is the effect of other
influences on the Iberian Peninsula from eastern Mediterranean
populations that might have imported lineages
such as G, K*, and J."

All that for starters.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "vernade didier" <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:57 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Sephardim or Moors ?

> So, to make things clear : you think that many of those identified as
> sepharads by Adams et al. are not truly sepharads in origin (Y DNA) .
>
> Otherwise a large set of G among sepharads would require an explanation.
>
> Didier
>
> I had written :
>>
>> > This post is for G haplogroup among "iberians". Below
>> are the 2 opposite
>> > choices I found : the Nuevo Mexico project is grouping
>> them as "Moors"
>> > while Adams et al. (2008 - see below) are mainly
>> considering them as
>> > ancient sephardic populations (not all G are called
>> sephardic but there is
>> > a clear enhancement of "Gs" among sephardic jews as
>> filtered out by Adams
>> > et al.)
>> > links :
>> > Nuevo Mexico project
>> > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/nuevomexico/default.aspx?section=yresults
>> >
>> > Adams et al. (2008)
>> > The Genetic Legacy of Religious Diversity and
>> Intolerance: Paternal
>> > Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the
>> Iberian Peninsula
>> >
>> > http://ukpmc.ac.uk/ type="text/javascript">DisplayMail('3ftool','articlerender.cgi');@@3d19061982
>> >
>> > So, Sephardic or Moors ? May be neither of these
>> ?................
>
> Grandcross replied :
>
>> Neither the Portugal Project (227) nor the Azores DNA
>> Project (141)
>> characterize haplogroup G as Sephardic or "Moor", howsoever
>> that term is
>> defined. The Iberian Project describes G and its subclades
>> as follows:
>>
>> "...The Alan Sarmatians were military allies of the Vandals
>> and the Suebi
>> during the conquest of Iberia, it is likely this is the
>> origin of haplogroup
>> G2 in Spain. The Alan Sarmatians' ancient homeland was the
>> Caucasus
>> Mountains. 4% of modern day Iberians share this origin."
>>
>> Personally, I think the conclusions reached in the Adams
>> paper are
>> fundamentally flawed.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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