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From: "James O'Shea" <>
Subject: [DNA] Irish/Continental or Irish Group IV nomenclature
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:22:53 +0100


The sub-clade being referred to in a recent thread as the 'Irish Type
IV' was originally identified by Ken Nordtvedt on June 24 2006. He named
it the 'Irish/Continental'. It is referred to as such within the Cullen
predictor http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/haplotest.htm . Its modal
is included under various titles in Y-Search under IDs UWM64, WJJQY,
S8QN2, GW7MQ, QJJNX and YNT5J. A new name now creates some confusion.
Unlike other identified Irish sub-clades, the Irish surnames closely
matching the eight signature markers are not obviously from a single
medieval Irish sect. However the majority of them can be identified with
the Irish counties of Tipperary, Kilkenny and Waterford in the South
East of Ireland. The majority of matching surnames are of British or
Continental origin with a strong Norman presence, suggesting the
progenitor is of Norman origin whose descendents settled in SE Ireland
after the Norman invasion of 1169 and adopted a variety of Gaelic
surnames. This distinguishes this sub-clade from others referred to as
Irish sub-clades where, to date, all claim both specific locations
within Ireland and descent from known pre-Christian or early medieval
Irish sects/clans. Examples are the North West Irish (Northern Ui
Neill), the Southern Irish (Eoghanacht), the Irish Type III (Dal Cais)
and the Leinster (the Laigin). The Irish/Continental (or Irish Group IV)
sub-clade is not 'Irish' in the same sense. Perhaps the sub-clade should
be named to reflect this as something like 'Continental (or Norman?)/SE
Ireland' although within Ireland the county of Tipperary would not
normally be recognised as being in the SE.



James O'Shea











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