Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-05 > 1273180535

From: Gilles Long <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] World of P78+ I2b1c
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 17:15:35 -0400
References: <00c901caed3c$d53f5a40$5e82af48@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <00c901caed3c$d53f5a40$5e82af48@Ken1>

Thank you Ken. Your comments are appreciated.

My family history contends that my ancestor, Philip Long, was of Scot
descent (?). Do you have any P78+ from Scotland in your database? I
understand I-Scots are mostly of M284+. Right?

In the YSearch database, I know of two I2b1c persons who have a 37/37 match:
one is a LONG, the other is a WAITE. I have a 35/37 match with these
persons, I am a LONG (Lang?) also. All three of us are searching hard. We
must have a not too distant common ancestor, don't you think?

Always interested to learn from your expertise.

Have a nice evening.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:54 PM
Subject: [DNA] World of P78+ I2b1c

>I have 90 haplotypes which are confirmed or probably P78+ I2b1c. They form
>an interesting population, geographically speaking, and are an unusually
>old clade. Not counting the usual British Isles surnames we have the
>following origin counts:
> Italy 6
> Germany 9
> Belgium 1
> Hungary 3
> Turkey/Armenia 1
> Greece 1
> Czech 4
> Russia 1
> Poland 1
> France 4
> and 18 Jews from Ukraine and other neighboring eastern Europe locations
> with their own unique and very young cluster within I2b1c.
> I2b1c is basically absent from Scandinavia
> I'll be darned if I will recommend buying a "deep clade package" at FTDNA
> just to get P78. I deplore their packaging. But if you are willing to go
> to Ethnoancestry you can purchase P78 as individual snp.
> Ethnoancestry has always been very supportive of our deep-time hobby by
> offering snps ala-carte. So if you can handle doing business with another
> lab, I think they should be supported for their ala-carte approach.
> I2b1c is difficult to separate from a cluster within I2b1* without either
> a P78 test or having the 38-67 panel of STRs. I recommend the latter if
> you think you may be of this clade.
> Look for 15 at 395b, 11 or 12 at 406, 13 at 534, 13 at 487. Those are
> indicators of P78+ rather than basic M223+ I2b1* Continental-2
> Also your DYS464a will probably be a high repeat value, such as 14 (But
> that alone is also true of this confusing I2b1* cluster).
> Ken
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