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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-06 > 1275881961


From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Paleolithic Europe was Genetics of the Jews
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <BAY132-W423A371D4404AE7697E8D9ED30@phx.gbl>


Sean wrote:
>Considering that despite Hammer's acceptance of
Vince's findings
regarding Eastern >R1b, which challenged the traditional R1b
migration
pattern once though to be canon, we >really haven't seen academia
accept
the notion of an R1b which did not originate, nor had >any recent
admixture with Europe...
at least not within the scope of Jewish
history.

Response:
Just to correct a false perception
on this list that R1b's entry into Europe in the Neolithic is some new
concept; it is in fact the old view (flat earth) from a genetics
standpoint. Cavalli Sforza first proposed it in 1971. Yet you will not
read a recent book of his repeating this. Now he goes so far as to say
R1b represents the Cro Magnon. He relatively recently said that
Neolithic representation is about 30 percent.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3630658

Papers
like this one (free full text article from last year):
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/48/20174.full.pdf+html
by
Cavalli-Sforza

He states the following concerning the Y:





Between-populations
variance g regularly increases proportionately to
their geographic distance from the population of origin. Conversely
diversity within
populations decreases regularly because it is 1-g in
relative values. In fact, the within-population variance does fall
linearly
with the distance from the population of origin, an observed phenomenon
called
serial founder effect
(10) that is explained almost entirely by drift and
migration.
They are referring to small populations of
hunter gatherer types that spread all over Western Europe after the Ice.

This
paper uses a statistical model based on range expansion processes to
arrive at the following conclusion;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1602044/?tool=pubmed

These
results imply that, under our model of a progressive range
expansion of Neolithic farmers with possible genetic exchange and
competition with local Paleolithic hunter–gatherers, it is very
unlikely that the Paleolithic contribution be globally smaller than
50%.
Hammers
recent support of the Ziv rates prove he is not on board with the
Neolithic replacement of the Paleolithic in Europe.
Of
course archeologists were always on board with the Iberian expansion
after the ice.
This is the prevailing view. Otherwise for
starters, those with an opposing view would need to explain the disappearance of
Neolithic women in Europe to prove their point.



Gary
Mexico
DNA Project Admin.
_______________________________________________________________
--- On Sat, 6/5/10, Sean Silver <> wrote:

From: Sean Silver <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Genetics of the Jews
To:
Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 12:15 PM


Considering that despite Hammer's acceptance of Vince's findings regarding Eastern R1b, which challenged the traditional R1b migration pattern once though to be canon, we really haven't seen academia accept the notion of an R1b which did not originate, nor had any recent admixture with Europe... at least not within the scope of Jewish history.





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