GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-06 > 1277148892
From: argiedude <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Extra level immediately under R1a1a (R-M198)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:34:52 -0300
Excellent post. These last few weeks I had been going over European R1a, calculating its variance and other stuff. To estimate the variance of the basal R1a I eliminated several known R1a clusters before making the estimates, such as the YCAII=19/21, 388=10, and the M458+ clades. This usually left about half of the original samples. The results showed that the eastern European regions with high frequencies of R1a had in fact a low variance. Scandinavian R1a was also rather low. On the other hand, the British Isles, Iberia, south Italy, Romania/Bulgaria, and the Levant/Egypt had very high variances.
Another thing of note is the recently confirmed existence of an R1a* (M420*) cluster in England. There are about a dozen of them. None have been found anywhere else in Europe, but M420* does exist in the Caucasus/Iran region, where it has a slightly greater frequency and most likely a greater variance. It doesn't seem to exist in India/Pakistan.
This new basal clade of R1a noticed by Igmayka is unquestionably centered in West Europe. Here are the origins of the samples I could find of it: England (x6), Scotland, Spain (x5), Morocco, France, west Germany, Switzerland, north Italy, Slovenia, Macedonia. Note that both M420* and this new clade reported by Igmayka have the modal 392=13 (M420* has 385=12/12, and the "new" one has 385=13/14).
So... (1) West Europe has a much higher variance of R1a than East Europe, excluding the noise factor of M458+ and other identifiable clusters. (2) West Europe (England) has a small cluster of the most basal form of R1a, found absolutely nowhere in East Europe (or the rest of Europe). (3) West Europe has another basal cluster of R1a (this new one spotted by Igmayka), found all throughout West Europe, extending even to Morocco, but so far completely, totally absent amongst thousands of East European samples from the heartland of R1a (Poland, Czech/Slovakia, Baltic states, Belarus/Russia/Ukraine). Hmmm...
> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 16:05:29 -0500
> Subject: [DNA] Extra level immediately under R1a1a (R-M198)
> Ysearch 56EXD of Germany (FTDNA kit 120406) belongs to the rare DYS392=13
> clade of R1a1a (R-M198). He recently submitted his 23andMe Y chromosome
> data to the Squecco spreadsheet. Unlike all others in R1a1a tested, he is
> ancestral for rs17316771 (known as M417) and rs34297606 (known as either
> Page07 or PAGES00007). These two SNPs were listed in Krahn's draft
> haplotree as equivalent to M17 and M198. His Ymap database lists their
> primers as known.
> It is extremely likely that other members of the rare DYS392=13 clade are
> also ancestral for these two SNPs. This effectively inserts a new
> phylogenetic level immediately downstream of M17 and M198 (but upstream of
> Unfortunately, FTDNA does not currently offer either M417 or Page07 in its
> Advanced menu.
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|Re: [DNA] Extra level immediately under R1a1a (R-M198) by argiedude <>|