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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-07 > 1280332708


From: "Richard Stevens" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] U106 in North Germany
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:58:28 -0400
References: <BF26BF957C31431AB7165F44FEAF929C@RichardNW>,<SNT131-ds121B3271BF31A31AE9EE74BCA60@phx.gbl>,<446F393937894211AD2C8D005ADC222E@RichardNW><SNT131-w503A8A5BF8F393B31BBEC3BCA60@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <SNT131-w503A8A5BF8F393B31BBEC3BCA60@phx.gbl>


Let me explain my reasons for asking about U106 in North Germany. I have
been somewhat loosely involved in a discussion about whether it is correct
to generalize and call U106 (as a whole, regardless of its subclades)
generally (not absolutely) Germanic relative to P312 (as a whole, regardless
of subclade). One of the men involved in the discussion has done some bean
counting and points out that there is actually more P312 in Germany and
Scandinavia than there is U106. I have argued that, while that may be true
simply because P312 is probably a larger group overall than U106, the
distribution of U106 is generally farther east and north than that of P312
and thus a better fit for Germanic.

One of my arguments was that U106 outnumbers P312 in Northern Germany and
that thus there is a gap between the P312 hotspots in SW and middle Germany
and Scandinavia, where P312 picks up again. I argued U106 seems to roll
evenly from North Germany into Scandinavia without such a break. However, my
friend once again counted the beans to show that is not really the case.

So, what's up? Were we led to believe U106 is uniquely Germanic because
early on it was treated as a monolith? P312 was discovered only after a
number of its subclades, so it has never been treated as a monolith. But if
we look at both U106 and P312 as monoliths, is U106 any more Germanic than
P312?

I have been arguing that U106 is a better fit for the Germanic title than
P312. Am I wrong?

Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gull" <>
To: "genealogy dna" <>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:19
Subject: Re: [DNA] U106 in North Germany



That makes more sense to me than the definitions that put Frankfurt in
northern Germany to build up enough U106 datapoints to support theories of
U106 as a northern Germanic clade <g>.

> From:
> To:
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:37:54 -0400
> Subject: Re: [DNA] U106 in North Germany
>
> I realize defining North Germany is a problem, but I was thinking in terms
> of the old tripartite major dialect division of Germany into
> Niederdeutsch,
> Mitteldeutsch, and Hochdeutsch (or Süddeutsch), kind of like what this
> very
> simplified map shows:
>
> http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa051898.htm
>
> The Niederdeutsch dialect area runs roughly (very roughly) north of the
> Düsseldorf-Leipzig line.
>
> Rich
>


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