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From: "Bernard SECHER" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b and R1a fate
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:04:19 +0100
References: <997903253.1036352.1291064765821.JavaMail.root@sz0002a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


Dear Anatole,

I am agree with you: there is no single proof that R1b spoke Indo-European
language before the 1st millennium BC, but also, there is no single proof
that R1b doesn't spoke Indo-European language before the 1st millennium BC.
R1b people are mainly present in the west, and the writing (historical
period) began only in this 1st millennium BC in this region.

I would like to expose those few remarks:

1) Today R1b people is clearly linked with centum Indo-European language and
centum languages are the ones which separated from the IE continuum in the
oldest time. R1a people is clearly linked with satem Indo-European
languages, and satem languages are the ones which separated from the IE
continuum in the more recent time. So there are many difficulties to believe
that R1b people could be change their language from R1a people. The contrary
is the most probable.
2) Many linguists and archaeologists are agree with the kurgan theory (D.
Anthony is not the only one). This theory associates clearly the Yamnaya
culture with the proto Indo Europeans. So if you think that R1b are really
linked with the Yamnaya culture, we can conclude, relative to the Kurgan
theory, that R1b was carry by people who spoke a proto IE language.
3) New research introduce the idea that celtic language originated in the
Atlantic Zone during the Bronze Age. See the book of Cunliffe and Koch:
"Celtic from the West: Alternative Perspectives from Archaeology, Genetics,
Language and Literature". Moreover, see the following link:
http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/fetch.php?id=10658 where we can read:
"Professor John Koch of the University of Wales Centre for Advanced Welsh
and Celtic Studies has put forward a new theory that the cradle of Celtic
civilisation was not Hallstatt, between the Rhine and the Rhone, but the
Iberian peninsula. " So maybe, following J. Kock, we can see the Bell Beaker
culture at the origine of celtic language. If it is right, then we see that
R1b spoke an IE language well before the 1st millenium BC.

As I have already told you, I think that R1a could have borrowed the IE
language from R1b, during the Yamnaya migrations in east Europe around 3.000
BC.


Bernard Secher


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