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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-12 > 1291748479


From:
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b and R1a fate
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:01:19 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <1693543005.324681.1291748274591.JavaMail.root@sz0002a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


>From: vernade didier < >
> I decided to check ysearch for those R1b1b2 with DYS426=11 and DYS393=12 , 2 values that seem typical of the group [M269+ , L23- , L51-]. This is a try a get more data. I found some other clades but let start with this one.
>I found that among those haplotypes with the 2 values above there is a solid clade of 38 haplotypes with additional value DYS392=14 and DYS511=11 and DYS413a=21 .
The geographical distribution is East Europe. It doesn't look jewish but I may be wrong.





Dear Didier,



It is a Jewish lineage, which I have described in our Proceedings in June, 2008. Their base haplotype is given on p. 222 (Proceeedings) as



12 24 14 10 11 14 11 12 12 13 14 29 -- 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16 -- 11 10 19 23 17 16 17 17 38 38 12 12 



(in the 37 marker format), and their common ancestor was estimated to live 1100+/-250 years before present (p. 222). 



>From the list of 38 haplotypes you have presented (see below) 35 were in the same 37 marker format. The base haplotypes for those 35 haplotypes is as follows:  



12 24 14 10 11 14 11 12 12 13 14 29 -- 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 16 16 -- 11 10 19 23 17 16 17 17 38 38 12 12 



As you see, it is identical with that published in June, 2008 (determined with 14 of 37 marker haplotypes). All 35 haplotypes contained 149 mutations from the above base haplotype, which gives 1250+/-150 years to the common ancestor. As one can see, 35 haplotypes gave pretty much similar result with that determined with 14 haplotypes more than two years ago. 



Regards,



Anatole Klyosov 



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Here are the ysearch IDs :
3M8PU , 4GKWV , 4MQ6J , 6NDWP , 76W5R , 8EXHY , 8GFTM , 9PT2A , AGXYH , BAHAY , CKMWX ,CWQKZ , CZ6H9 , D7KXH , E2ARM , EVQXJ , G7U9V , GDGK6 , HGNKF , HURXA , MQKB4 , MS4MR , NX2ET , PWUBQ , QGYT6 , QTX89 , RTSY6 , S37A5 , SMNTN , T75CF , TKCMA , TNG66 , UZPQF , VHMHZ , WBAES , YJDRT , YRA5P , 2ZWRS

This clade is recent and populated. I am wondering whether it influenced the previous calculations of TMRCA. It's like studying R-L21 without the knowledge of M222 and finding many R-L21 with similar haplotypes.

Just curious : who are these guys ? Any aristocratic lineage ?

Didier



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