Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-12 > 1291838269

From: Robert Tarín <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:57:49 -0600

I posted the following earlier this morning as a reply to Andrew Lancaster
but it never showed up on the List so I am resending it. My apologies if it
ends up duplicated.

Dear Andrew,

I decided to examine for myself the age of P312* in Europe using Tim
Janzen's variance method program. Tim's program/spreadsheet can be found at
this link:

The datasets used were the SNP tested 67 marker haplotypes from the R-P312
and Subclades Project at this link:

Below are the resulting ages (generations) obtained for the following
European countries. The "exclusions" in the 67 marker haplotypes are DYS385,
DYS395, DYS413, DYS425, DYS459, DYS464, YCA II and CDY, as explained in
Tim's program.

France n=20
130.597 (exclusions)
91.89701 (all markers)

England n=54
130.5026 (exclusions)
98.46821 (all markers)

Scandinavia n=17
104.0021 (exclusions)
76.63982 (all markers)

Germany n=14
96.58779 (exclusions)
81.02305 (all markers)

Spain n=15
95.91887 (exclusions)
81.99336 (all markers)

Portugal n=5
91.95402 (exclusions)
82.74632 (all markers)

Italy n=5
60.38772 (exclusions)
63.4864 (all markers)

Switzerland n=3
53.37298 (exclusions)
63.40714 (all markers)

The above findings suggest that P312* arose in France or possibly England,
then spread to Scandinavia and Germany, later to Spain, Portugal, Italy and
Switzerland. Of course results depend upon the datasets used so if there are
other larger datasets that can be analysed things could always change. That
is part of the scientific method. I agree that the variance method should be
used rather than looking just at frequencies to determine possible origins.
I also think that a good analysis of R-L11 might help.

Best regards,
Robert Tarín

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