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From: "Lancaster-Boon" <>
Subject: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 07:50:35 +0100


Dear Anatole

Thank you for giving some data, although I was surprised at how resistent
you were to give the data requested after your own various remarks about
wanting beef.

I do agree with your remark to Robert Tarim that just looking at variances
of individual clades can be misleading. And in your post to Vincent, where
you present your own R-U106 data you say a similar thing.

I think that to be honest the tendency for both R-P312 and R-U106 to look so
northeastern, with the main real "beefy" data that we can actually look at,
does not really fit anyone's theories at the moment. Maybe R1b in Western
Europe actually entered from around the east of the Carpathians? Coming up
the Danube is more obvious, but the low variances around the Alps are
somewhat surprising.

Another remark you make is that R-L21 looks older than R-P312 when we look
at variances. I guess you realize that for ages of related clades it is
often possible to estimate age back to the most recent common male line
ancestor of modern men with a particular SNP shared by two clades. Such a
method, comparing two SNP-defined clades, is less susceptable to the
problems we have when we look at variance within one SNP-defined clade only.

What those types of estimates tell us is that it is highly likely that the
common ancestors of all men in R-U106, R-P312, and R-L21 lived within a very
remarkably short period of time, which implies that they were close
relatives living near each other.

Best Regards
Andrew


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