Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-12 > 1291928859

From: "Tim Janzen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:07:39 -0800
In-Reply-To: <>

Dear Anatole,
Thanks for your additional messages earlier this am. I think that
it is interesting to see your data for R-U106* which suggests that the
variance for R-U106* is highest in SE Europe. Your results showed a pattern
that was fairly similar to the results I had in February for R-U106*. See
97. It is also interesting that your data for R-P312* suggests a higher
variance in Eastern Europe than in Spain and Portugal.
I think that the key here is trying to figure out where the R-L11
SNP occurred. The data I included in my message last night would suggest
that the R-L11 SNP could have originated in France or England. However, if
the variance for R-U106* is highest in SE Europe and for R-P312* is highest
in Eastern Europe this would suggest that R-L11 may well have originated on
the Russian Plain and/or in Anatolia as you suggested earlier today. If so,
this would help explain the presence of the one R-L11* haplotype from
Armenia in Vince's project.
It will be interesting to see follow this situation as more R-L11*
and R-L51* haplotypes become available in the future.

Tim Janzen

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?

Dear Tim,
Thank you for the data.  Since we employ quite different approaches, it does
not make much sense to discuss here technicalities, such as why 30 years per
generation (I do not use "generations" in my approach at all, I use time
spans in years) and why to take averages from such different figures, some
of which are clearly incorrect since differ by 200% and more.  Instead of
venturing into an endless and generally fruitless discussion, I just share
with you and folks here results of my quick analysis of the same series of
haplotypes, and compare data on U106 and P312* in the same terms and under
the same angle.

Let me remind you that for U106 an average number of mutations per marker in
67 marker haplotypes were:

0.221 for South-West Europe
0.234 for North-West Europe
0.234 for Scandinavia
0.236 for Central Europe
0.239 for North-East Europe
0.260 for South-East Europe.

Anatole Klyosov

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