Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-12 > 1291987984

Subject: Re: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:33:04 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <>

>From: "Lancaster-Boon" < >
>Dear Anatole
>From your post to Robert:-
>>I have a (tentative) hypothesis that the R1b1b2 when entered Iberia around
4800 ybp, had Berbers E1b1b1 ("Berbers" here is a general term) on their
shoulders. Their "friendship" is reflected in the mirror location of E1b and
R1b in Iberia until now.

>Interesting but I hope you've tried to split up the different types of E1b1b
in Iberia. It is a complicated area for E1b1b. There are areas with high
E-M81, but also (it seems) quite a bit of E-V22 for example, and then also
in some areas E-V13. No published study has really checked all the known
SNPs in detail.

My response:

Dear Andrew,

Well, go ahead. Make my day. Check them "in detail".

However, I would not differentiate at the moment different subclades of E1b, such as E1b1b1b-M81, E1b1b1a3-V22, E1b1b1a2-V13, etc., in their role in wiping out a good deal of the Bell Beakers. To me the principal question is not there yet. The point is to reach a (at least partial) consensus with historians, and/or give them a direction for focused search. This is how I see a role of DNA genealogy in science. Not to fit to what is already known, but to open new avenues in history, linguistics. 

However, E-V13 is already out, since it was formed around 2600 ybp (Lutak and Klyosov, Proceedings, 2009, April, pp. 639-669). E-V65 is out on the same reason (2625 ybp). E-V22 is a good candidate, with its common ancestor around 5075 ybp (ibid). E1b1b1a1-V12 also could be there, with its common ancestor of 4300+/-680 ybp. E3b1, as Adams et al (2008) called them (it is apparently E-81), has a common ancestor in Iberia around 4825 ybp (Klyosov, Proceedings, 2009, March, pp. 390-421), which nicely fit to the concept.      

I do not know what you mean "in detail", however, Sergey Lutak and myself have done a pretty detailed analysis of various subclades of haplogroup E1b (the ref. above). 

Anatole Klyosov  

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