Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-12 > 1291988699

Subject: Re: [DNA] NW European R1b from Iberia?
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:44:59 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <>

>From: "Vincent Vizachero" <>
>Cc: "Anatole Klyosov"
>Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 7:05:21 AM

>Or a clear sign that P312 arrived in Iberia AFTER France.  That would  
be the more logical interpretation.

My response:

It is "logical" on the surface. "Logic" is the worst enemy of a scientist. Logic never leads to discoveries. "Logic" kills even patent applications. "Novel", not "logic" is a key word.

In order to be "logical" you have to answer the question - who were Bell Beakers? If the were R1b, which is the most likely, which subclade(s)? Did they move from Iberia (the most likely)?

Which R1b subclade would have moved North from Iberia from about 4800 ybp? You can use "logic" only along with answering the above questions.

The pattern there is a multi-dimentional one, and I object against that kind of surface "logic".

Anatole Klyosov     

On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:42 PM, Anatole Klyosov wrote:

> 1) P312 in Iberia is around 3600 years "old" while its downstream  
> L21 in France is around 4200 years "old". These dates were reproduced for  
> different datasets. It shows that we see P312 "younger" than it was. This is a clear  
> sign of a bottleneck.

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