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From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The death of paragroups
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:42:03 -0500
References: <8FB365E1-2876-4664-AA70-3CCD4CEBB9CB@vizachero.com><000501cba78a$0850ce70$c2482dae@Ken1> <003b01cba79b$5dbd2f00$19378d00$@dgmweb.net><003101cba7ad$8afe1800$c2482dae@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <003101cba7ad$8afe1800$c2482dae@Ken1>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:genealogy-dna-
> ] On Behalf Of Ken Nordtvedt
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:10 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] The death of paragroups
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <>
>
> It is not an "idea" that the Y-tree is "almost"
> > entirely a set of bifurcations, it is a bifurcating tree. [[Vast
> > majority of the nodes will be bifurcating; but occasionally
> > trifurcating, etc. We can even estimate the fraction of nodes being
trifurcating,etc.
> > Elite-dominant male lines will, for example, have greater tendency for
> > having normal bifurcating nodes and trifurcating nodes.... as long as
> > they maintain their reproductive dominance which thankfully is usually only
a
> > few generations. KN]]

A trifurcation is, in reality, two bifurcations, the order of which is unknown
-- unless you are asserting that multiple new SNPs commonly appear in the same
individual. Is there any reason to believe this is the case?

I'm sorry, I simply don't understand what you mean by an "elite-dominant male
line."

> if we test enough people we
> > will eventually know the ordering, in which case we will have a
> > bifurcating tree, with a single SNP at each node, [[ As emphasized on
> > this list for years now, but apparently with no pedagogical success,
> > snps happen on branch lines between nodes, with no special tendency to
> > happen at the particular three males on the prongs of the nodes KN]]

It's *arbitrary* whether you choose to view SNPs as occurring on the nodes or on
the branches. Please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node-based_taxon#Branch-based_definitions_of_clade

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by, "no special tendency to
happen at the particular three males on the prongs of the nodes."

Diana




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