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From: Dienekes Pontikos <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] How old is Y-Chromosome Adam?
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 12:13:15 +0200
References: <mailman.255.1293782436.1099.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com><3203DE795D7E4D24B6A24928379E156E@anatoldesktop><AANLkTi=F+O4hFtK900wWetyKtfjzJB90r_CYi+5cc8h8@mail.gmail.com><3494E649-D554-4BFA-A206-80C054DBB9B6@vizachero.com><19954443.178870.1293883908917.JavaMail.www@wwinf2233><004001cba9d5$b0498ed0$c2482dae@Ken1><C4D1EA69-E1DC-4EB2-8F2C-E97B0E9971F3@vizachero.com><005a01cba9dc$a6a96650$c2482dae@Ken1><5E0F95F0B965408DB2815855E6B42C45@lop><AANLkTimVz4+h41_r+ZwEv+zhaWaOaVWO8Kf0xih-fV2t@mail.gmail.com><00f901cbaa01$d1a63110$c2482dae@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <00f901cbaa01$d1a63110$c2482dae@Ken1>


I can't speak about Tim Janzen's numbers, but when I took all the
tested A and C 67-marker haplotypes from their respective FTDNA
projects, got rid of the multi-copy markers, isolated the ones for
which there are mutation rates in Ballantyne et al. ...

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/09/y-str-mega-paper-ballantyne-et-al-2010.html

... which is 46 markers in total:

"DYS393" "DYS390" "DYS19" "DYS391" "DYS426" "DYS388" "DYS439"
"DYS392" "DYS458" "DYS455" "DYS454" "DYS447" "DYS437" "DYS448"
"DYS449" "DYS460" "DYS456" "DYS576"
"DYS570" "DYS442" "DYS438" "DYS531" "DYS578" "DYS590" "DYS537"
"DYS641" "DYS472" "DYS511" "DYS425" "DYS557" "DYS594" "DYS436"
"DYS490" "DYS534" "DYS450" "DYS444"
"DYS481" "DYS520" "DYS446" "DYS617" "DYS568" "DYS487" "DYS572"
"DYS640" "DYS492" "DYS565"

and estimated the age by dividing ASD by 2*mutation rate for each
marker, I got the following ages (in generations, rounded):

190 2274 200 182 1178 6500 137 64 99 7541 1053 5165
225 55869 1693 57 162 94 114 65 837 31 553 3708
273 705 280
1394 33377 1391 1341 1790 12722 200 1238 651 895 4427 1435
3450 2199 706 688 126 1435 167

The average is ~86ky (with 25y generation), which is about what
usually hear about the age of human Y-chromosomes. If we use the 23
slowest markers in this set we get an age of ~152ky; with the 10
slowest ones it is ~219ky. If we use the 23 fastest ones, we get
~21ky; with the 10 fastest ones, we get ~10ky.

In sort, this has confirmed to me that age estimates of Y-chromosome
Adam depend on the particular markers and "mix" of fast- and slow-
evolving markers one uses.

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Ken Nordtvedt <> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
>
> The point was that slow- and fast- evolving markers give estimates
> that differ by more than an order of magnitude, so nothing is
> "confirmed".
>
> Before we let a new mythology based on possible egageration
> develop in the new year, what is the specific haplotype data, subsets of
> STRs, methodology/equations used,  which reaches factor of ten estimate
> differences of the same thing --- and total number of different cases
> examined from which this case arises?
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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--
Dienekes' Anthropology Blog: http://dienekes.blogspot.com
Dodecad Ancestry Project: http://dodecad.blogspot.com


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