GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-03 > 1299101120
From: Mike W <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 / S28 mirrors R1a1 in the British Isles
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 15:25:20 -0600
Your hypothesis could be correct but I don't think the information you
presented in this message provides much support. I added some comments in
[[[ ]]]'s below. I do see that R-L11's subclades (including U152's) have
vastly different distribution patterns in the Isles so it is apparent they
had different migration/expansion paths. I think that these broad
haplogroups, at least for R-L11 subclades, need to be refined to much deeper
subclade levels for this kind of analysis.
---------- From: David Faux <>
.... hypothesizing that the majority of U152 / S28 in the British Isles is
Angle or Scandinavian....
... a recent study ... shows very clearly that U152 / S28 and R1a1 are
virtual twins just about everywhere in the UK and
Ireland.... best explored via viewing the maps...
[[[ I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder as an eyeball only look at
small slices in frequency pie charts didn't show me that U152 and R1a1 were
"virtual twins". If you pulled out the actual data, you might see that the
ratios of U152 and R1a1 were vastly different in some of the sub-regions of
the British Isles... in fact according to the pie slices that it no doubt
the case. Two small pie slices of a small pie may both look "small" but one
may be double the size of the other in one place but about the same in
.... If, as for example Wilson et al. (2001) and Jobling, Harding and King
(2011) assert, R1a1 is the Viking "signature" haplogroup in the British
[[[ This is possible, and perhaps probable, but keep in mind that R1a1's
TMRCA is probably at least 4-5 times older than the Viking age so R1a1 may
be sprinkled in some other migrations as well. We know R1a1 was found in
southern Germany a couple of thousand years before there were Scandinavians
known for their viking activities.]]]
.... what does this say about U152 / S28.
[[[ Not much that I can see. Have you tried looking at variance rather than
frequency? My rough calculations show that U152's variance (from the
consumer projects and your file) is much higher in SE England than in some
of the areas to the north that those maps show have higher "relative"
frequencies. Perhaps variance might provide an additional perspective,
particularly at finer resolution. For example, R-L2 maybe different than