Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-03 > 1300498237

From: LD Dong <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 / S28 mirrors R1a1 in the British Isles (actuallyit twins with 'Pictish' in the Northern Isles samples)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:30:37 -0500

Your sole intent,purpose and hearts desire is singularly to make yourself a
''VIKING'' via paternal Y-DNA.

thats not a attack- its a fact. Its also kind of sad that without this
'acknowledgement' from others you will always be unsatisfied and selling
this same sad story.

You have absolutely no ability make any dispassionate or fact-based
appraisal since you have already shown a proclivity to find what you intend
to find, and to use whatever argument you can assemble 'to sell' this to

There look to be more than one source of S28/U-152 in the Isles, since a
large portion is a very common AMH variety that at any evaluation of STR
markers, is STR indistinguishable from any average, random L21- R1b-

and then there are more continental STR varieties of S28/U-152 that, based
on STR peculiarities, were clearly going to manifest in a different SNP from
then known R1b SNP,
before the S28 SNP was ever even found, since they are not STR close to
other R1b varieties.

THe article you cite does not explain how the 'study'selected partcipants
based on family longevity in these regions,
it shows virtually zero S28/U-152 in London metro region, which would have
been the heart of the U-152 origin in england from prior studies,
U-152 roughly exactly matches the percentage of PICTISH samples, not R1a
so-called 'viking'throughout the Scandinavian settled norhtern isles,

while R1a is many times larger than either U-152 or (alleged) ''Pictish''

Given the introgression into all these regions over centuries now, the fact
that the Ulster and all IRISH samples of U-152 equal the percentage found in
'native' london samples,
and the london metro 'viking' sample is very sizable...

I would suspect that this data is order in chaos,
which at best shows that U-152 today is found at low frequencies in all
country (all-white briton bastion) regions of england, that have seen less
introgression from massive modern 3rd world immigration, while its homeland
in southern central england which is the home of a lot of these immigrants
shows U-152 improbably absent due to the noise from the massive immigration
(INCLUDING A LOT OF EASTERN EURO R1a - which IS found in large pct in modern
London in this ''study''), that swamped U-152 there.

this study says less about U-152 than it says about the influx into a lot of
immigration into Urban areas.
It would take a very costly pedigree process of in-situ populations that
went back to at least the period of Industrialisation to gain samples that
would offer a real SNP picture of Britain from a earlier time.

In this case, a lot of this R1a ''Viking'' may be a sign of Free Polish
(etc..) military forces barracked in Britain, with a LOT of time (and
liberty) on their hands around 1940, while the entire British male
reproductive-age population was cooincidentally deployed on battlefronts
from maylaysia to Tunis.

Last- I dont think all U-152 in the Isles comes from the same source
populations/cultures, as some of it is so common in its AMH STR's,

while other varieties do not even remotely follow the AMH STR theme. These
classes likely do not coalesce into the same source populations or origins.

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