GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-04 > 1303574307


From: Tom Gull <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b refugium was Helpful websites and resources
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:58:27 -0400
References: <4DB1DD2E.5040502@gmail.com>,<925787.94412.qm@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <925787.94412.qm@web81102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I suspect people would make comments similar to those about my hypothesis that LCD TVs spread out across Europe from the Iberian Refugium 20,000 years ago based on them being the most common type of TV in use in Europe today. Typical criticisms have been things like (1) LCD TVs didn't exist then and (2) we have a pretty good idea when they came into existence and roughly where and it wasn't 20,000 years ago in the Iberian Refugium. I don't understand those criticisms of my logic as I have additional hypotheses that would explain 1 and 2 that involve time travel.
My tongue is in my cheek taking a DNA sample to send to FTDNA. But I think 1 and 2 above answer your question pretty directly. R1b found in such profusion in Europe today has a far younger origin than a Refugium-based expansion hypothesis would require and clearly flowed from East to West when the mutation finally occurred. This is what the data is saying to date if you listen to the data as opposed to starting with the "most frequent today = point of origin" hypothesis as a fact and seeing everything through that prism.

> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 22:39:17 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b refugium was Helpful websites and resources
>
>
>
>
>
> >"due to the wrongful assumption that western R1b had emerged from the Iberian
> >Refugium."
>
> What proof do you have that the Y line that dominates western europe today is not the same line that repopulated Western Europe after the LGM?
>
> Gary
> Mexico DNA Project Admin.
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/22/11, Vince Tilroe <> wrote:
>
>
> From: Vince Tilroe <>
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Helpful websites and resources
> To:
> Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 12:55 PM
>
>
> The model haplotype for R-P312 is available as Ysearch XQJ7H. This
> happens to be identical with the Western Atlantic Model Haplotype
> (WAMH), which had been (mis)-attributed to the whole of R1b due to the
> wrongful assumption that western R1b had emerged from the Iberian
> Refugium. This phenomenon was actually due to the extremely high
> frequency of sub- R-L11 haplotypes used to create the WAMH in the first
> place.
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


This thread: