Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-05 > 1304929866

From: vernade didier <>
Subject: [DNA] Re : new earliest I tree structure
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:31:06 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <008D6B9644DE42FC83A50E8CA636AE8D@kenPC>

This post on I haplogroup didn't receive many comments it seems. I just realized that L460 is rs7892855 on 23andME v3 . This is a typical case where 23andME reactivity is low : while they have the SNP that make the break , it may take a long time before the conclusion reaches customers.


> Finally the key L460 test result was
> reported out last night from FTDNA.  A quite different
> I2* haplotype (from Georgia in Caucasus) confirmed the
> ancestral L460- first found in the 23andMe test of dna from
> St Petersburg Russia.  The latter fits into the quite
> different Jewish clade of I2*  The new I2 is defined as
> the haplogroup ancestral for L460 but derived for the
> M438=S31=P215 snp which defines all of I2.............
> In the meantime 23andMe had accumulated more than a dozen
> derived L460+ results from folks in the various I2a..... and
> I2b.... clades (..... means any additional downstream
> designations)   This means the early time
> structure of haplogroup I tree is changed from what I
> thought it would be from STR interclade variance or GD
> considerations.  The I2 branch line is even more
> ancient now.  Four branch lines to i1, I2a, I2, I2b
> separate from each other at about the same time 20,000 years
> ago.  The node where the I2a and I2b branch lines
> separate being the latest event. 
> This is the first time in the early I tree when snp
> evidence contradicted the inference from earlier acquired
> STR evidence concerning temporal order of tree nodes.
> You can see the revised I tree as warpedfounderstree2 at my
> website 
> The approximately common separation of haplogroup I into
> four branches 20,000 years ago probably has some
> implications for our speculations of how haplogroup I spread
> in Europe (and Anatolia) so long ago.
> I include one possible haplogroup renaming required for the
> old I2a.... and I2b.... haplogroups.  Note how massive
> is this required renaming.  People won’t like the new
> confusion, and no doubt ISOGG and other more official folks
> will do the renaming differently because they retain
> private-like snps in their trees which I do not keep in my
> tree.  Probably best to refer to last snp or two to
> identify haplogroups now.  For instance; the old
> I2a2b-Dinaric can be called simply L69+ L147+
> Note that I2 is now also split between the original three
> divisions, A,B,C, and the demographically small and
> relatively newly found ADR clade.  Three snps L415,
> L416, L417 found in a WTY test define the ADR clade which
> becomes I2b in the new nomenclature.
> Ken
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the
> subject and the body of the message

This thread: