GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-07 > 1310225029
From: Stephen Forrest <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Markers that determine someone is Irish and Scottish
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 11:23:49 -0400
In general human populations, especially neighbouring populations, don't
offer nice clear distinctions to the extent we might like. There are surely
men alive today whose male lines crossed the Irish sea 4 or more times in
the last 1000 years; what date to we pick to decide whether they're Scottish
It is possible to answer the question if you have a close match to a group
which you can reasonably expect to have been localised someplace in Ireland
or Scotland for quite a while.
In my case, my male line on paper goes back 200 years and is all in Ireland,
but I have a lot of close Y-DNA matches all from a specific area in the
Scottish Lowlands and the shared surname is known to be linked with that
area. So I am able to say with confidence that my "Irish" paternal line
must be Scottish. This isn't because my DNA is somehow generally
'Scottish', but because of where my matches are and I what I can expect
about their history.
Hope that helps,
On 9 July 2011 05:33, Karen Hodges <> wrote:
> Hi Tyrone
> Thank you.
> Someone recently told me that their y dna test has link them to
> being Scottish. I am waiting for them to get back to me with what it was.
> Their paper trial has taken them back to the mid 1700's still in England.
> My Mother's paternal line was Grant and the paper trial is back to the
> 1600's in England, it may go back further. Oral history says our ancestors
> came from Stirling Scotland. If the paper trial runs out in England could
> dna testing prove that the family were once from Scotland?
> On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Tyrone Bowes Ph.D. <
> > Hi Karen,
> > I lived in Scotland for 10 years, married a Chinese Scot and besides this
> > the Scots are a very divergent bunch. Probably the only thing that unites
> > them is their dislike of the English ;-).
> > In the Highlands and Islands including the Western Isles and southwest
> > Scotland many would be descendants of Gaels from the North of Ireland.
> > There
> > is also a heavy Norman influence throughout, then theres the Vikings who
> > settled in the East and Orkney but also in the Western Isles (these in
> > gave rise to Mercenary Scots known as Gallowglass). Then theres the Picts
> > who appear to have been absorbed into Gaelic culture and disappeared as
> > such. Then there is also the 1/5 of the population in Scotland at present
> > who are descendant from Irish emigrants from the 18th and 19th century
> > In Ireland there appear to be 2 groups, Northern Niall of the Nine
> > group, and the Southern Irish. It may be that the Northern Irish group
> > the 'Scotti' that settled in Scotland. But to confuse matters further,
> > of my members of the Southern Irish group (Donohoe) had matches to
> > Robertsons.
> > So markers to tell them apart I think is unlikely.
> > Tyrone
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|Re: [DNA] Markers that determine someone is Irish and Scottish by Stephen Forrest <>|