GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-11 > 1321090549


From: vernade didier <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Correct TMRCA analysis
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:35:49 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <CAN9LhS-SbAMD348t7CjKQHE_kwWJu3cYLBc=MFCji2_wSQb-Jg@mail.gmail.com>


OK , we'll see . Your post is allowing me to correct myself : the 7 STR probably point toward a E-M78 haplotype (not certainly as I wrongly wrote).
My position is reasonable doubt on DNA analysis when the sample is 7000 years old and the result is sustained by only 1 sample and only 1 SNP .

We don't need the 7STRs to certify E-V13, since there is a V13+ SNP.
The 7 STRs are supportive of the V13+ SNP, and nullify the possibility
that the latter is e.g., some type of post mortem DNA degradation or
such.

Even without the 7 STRs, however, the chance of such an event would
have been miniscule, since most of the Y-chromosome is monomorphic,
and the odds are stacked against the possibility of a postmortem
damage at precisely a site that happens to be polymorphic in modern
humans. And, the odds are stacked against the possibility of
contamination, given the rarity of E-V13 in the area today, and all
the precautions used by the scientists and described in the paper.

So, no, I don't see any reason that it is "equally likely that the V13
result was wrong."

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:42 AM, vernade didier <> wrote:
>
>
> Come on ! The 7 STR do NOT  certify E-V13 . They certainly point toward some E.M78 subclade , that's all.
> Also, the point is still that the E-V13 analysis until now may have focused on what may appear as a  E-V13 specific subclade. Something similar to what happened when people working on R-M269  found  P312.
> So, to make it clear : the dataset analyzed until now as E-V13  was a set of rather closely related haplotypes ; if we can find more E-V13 haplotypes from Spain (and probably also from south west France)  a new understanding of the group might emerge. We are not yet at this point.
> I consider equally likely that the V13 result was wrong.
>
> There was both a V13+ SNP test, as well as seven Y-STR markers that
> clearly marked the Y-chromosome as belonging to the E-V13 clade. Also,
> the fact that E-V13 is so rare in Spain today is actually supportive
> of the authenticity of the ancient DNA result, as it decreases the
> possibility of contamination.
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:36 AM,  <> wrote:
>> The test is done on DNA degraded by presumably 7000 years in a cave. Many tests are failing in such conditions. One should keep some caution before considering this one result : One skeleton and only one SNP is indicating E-V13 : so, yes, may be the result is wrong...
>> E-V13 is only known in a few cases in Spain and in France ; it's mostly a marker from the balkans, Central Europe and East Europe. Spain is not the place one was expecting to find E-V13.
>
> --
> Dienekes' Anthropology Blog: http://dienekes.blogspot.com
> Dodecad Ancestry Project: http://dodecad.blogspot.com
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>



--
Dienekes' Anthropology Blog: http://dienekes.blogspot.com
Dodecad Ancestry Project: http://dodecad.blogspot.com


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


This thread: