GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-12 > 1323200458
From: "Don Milligan" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] King Tut's DNA
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 11:40:58 -0800
MANY THANKS ANATOLE!
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE PATH OF THE L-21+ ANCESTORS OF THE CELTS INTO THE BRITISH ISLES?
THANK YOU, DON MILLIGAN
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] King Tut's DNA
>From: Sam Sloan
>Are you saying that the R1b group moved across North Africa and
then crossed at Gibraltar into Spain, reaching the Pyrenees at ~
5,000-4,800 ybp and that is how we got into Western Europe?
Yes Sam, I was repeatedly saying it here at this Forum for the last three years. The Tut's haplotype and the accompanying story is a small (but promising) episode in the whole picture. However, this was not the only route of R1b1a2 entering to Europe between 5,000 and 4,500 ybp (and later, of course).
It seems that there were at least three principal routes: (1) across North Africa and then Gibraltar into the Pyrenees, and then as the Bell Beakers to the continental Europe (the oldest archaeological evidences for BB are found in Portugal and dated 4,900-4,800 ybp; the interclade TMRCA for R-P312 and R-U106 gives the same date, namely 4,800 ybp; there is plenty of R-M269* and P312* in the Pyrenees), (2) directly from Asia Minor westward (mainly R-L23), and (3) from Pontic steppes (north of the Black Sea) westward, again mainly L23.
Anatole Klyosov wrote:
>By the way, this interesting story has its continuation. As I have described at this Forum and not once, the migration route of R1b1a2 (after their "appearance" as R1b likely in Central Asia ~ 16,000 ybp and drifting westward via Southern Urals, Northern Kazakhstan, Mid Volga River, leaving behind the R1b Uyghurs, R1b Bashkirs, R1b Tatars, R1b Kazakhs, R1b Uzbeks with their VERY different R1b haplotypes, pointing at 16,000 ybp as a lifetime of a common ancestor with the European R1b), then the Caucasus (with the mainly R-L23 folks in Armenia, Dagestan, etc.) [TMRCA ~6,000 ybp], then Anatolia [TMRCA ~6,000 ybp), Iraq, Lebanon [TMRCA ~ 5,500 ybp], the future Middle Eastern Jews [R1b TMRCA ~ 5,500 ybp], they continued to move westward along the Northern African coastline and reached the Pyrenees at ~ 5,000-4,800 ybp. It is also likely that on its route the R-V88 group split and moved into the African continent, ending up in the Cameroon-Chad area. Indeed, the TMRCA for R1b-V8!
8 there is 4,400+/-600 ybp (Proceedings of the RA-DNA, 2010, March, vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 369-378).
> If this migration route is correct, R1b1a2 were supposed to pass Egypt between 5,500 and 5,000 ybp, and we can expect the appearance of the R1b1a2 lineage, which King Tut belonged to, between 5,500 and 5,000 ybp. It does not look as a pure coincidence, that Narmer, the first Pharaoh of unified Egypt and the founder of the First Dynasty (he belonged to a so-called "Zero Dynasty"), had appeared there 5,200 ybp. His origin remains unknown, "the identity of Narmer is the subject of ongoing debate" (as sources say), his name did not belong to the list of preceding royal titularies in Egypt.
> (The story is to be published in a few days with all details, haplotypes, Pharaoh dynasties, etc. in said Proceedings).
> Anatole Klyosov
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|Re: [DNA] King Tut's DNA by "Don Milligan" <>|