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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-12 > 1323206187


From:
Subject: Re: [DNA] King Tut's DNA
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 21:16:27 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <2099618496.721580.1323193513179.JavaMail.root@sz0002a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


>From: Mike W
>Anatole,
>I think you are saying the P312 and U106 L11 lineages came along the North
Africa route. Is that correct, or do you think P312 and U106 occurred in
Asia or nearby, before they started spreading along the various routes?
>In other words is all P312 and all U106 derived of the North Africa then
Iberia route?



Dear Mike,

 

My opinion is as good as anybody else's provided that the anybody else is based his/her opinion on actual DATA, calculations, evidences.

 

Having said that, my DATA (thank you Mike personally for providing extensive R1b1a2 datasets) shows that the P312 and U106 67 marker base haplotypes differ by only six mutations. This is very little, and since both of them are "brother" subclades and both were derived from L11, it is clear that they are almost "twins". They could not travel separately from some place in Asia, they just did not have enough time for that. Those six mutations between P312 and U106 place THEIR common ancestor at 4800 ybp (Proceedings of RA-DNA, 2011 June, vol. 4, No. 6, p. 1133). It is too late for R1b to be in Asia that time. It is already Europe or entering it.  

 

So, I believe that ALL P312 and U106 derived of the North Africa - Iberia route, and probably at the very end of that route.   

 

Regards,

 

Anatole Klyosov

 


---------- Forwarded message ---------- Anatole Klyosov

... It seems that there were at least three principal routes: (1) across
North Africa and then Gibraltar into the Pyrenees, and then as the Bell
Beakers to the continental Europe (the oldest archaeological evidences for
BB are found in Portugal and dated 4,900-4,800 ybp; the interclade TMRCA
for R-P312 and R-U106 gives the same date, namely 4,800 ybp; there is
plenty of R-M269* and P312* in the Pyrenees), (2) directly from Asia Minor
westward (mainly R-L23), and (3) from Pontic steppes (north of the Black
Sea) westward, again mainly L23.




---------- Forwarded message ---------- Anatole Klyosov

... It seems that there were at least three principal routes: (1) across
North Africa and then Gibraltar into the Pyrenees, and then as the Bell
Beakers to the continental Europe (the oldest archaeological evidences for
BB are found in Portugal and dated 4,900-4,800 ybp; the interclade TMRCA
for R-P312 and R-U106 gives the same date, namely 4,800 ybp; there is
plenty of R-M269* and P312* in the Pyrenees), (2) directly from Asia Minor
westward (mainly R-L23), and (3) from Pontic steppes (north of the Black
Sea) westward, again mainly L23.


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