Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2011-12 > 1323375029

From: "Anatole Klyosov" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] King Tut's DNA
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 15:10:29 -0500
References: <><BCEBE6576D5542AAB66D879DC56BCCD1@anatoldesktop>

>From: Lplantagenet ...what is your view on the Celts? Do you think they
>belonged to R1b or to another Haplogroup?

Dear Lindsey,

It all depends how you would define the Celts. Do you consider them the same
as the Gauls?

There a few reasons why I do not feel comfortable to discuss origin of the
Celts here. First, I do not feel truly qualified, albeit I am not sure if
anyone is truly qualified to discuss the origin of Celts. Second, I do not
know on what level you want the discussion (including that on haplogroups) -
on the level "he said - she said", on a level of popular stories, of the
level on typical books on the Celts (which often fit to one of the preceding
categories), or on the level of academic science (which, alas, is also full
of fables).

As I have noticed, the more scientific, hence, serious work, the less it is
specific on the origin of Celts. Most of them do not say a word where the
Celts came from. The recent "The Celts" DVD from the series "Ancient
Civilizations" says that the first Celts came from the Pontic steppes in the
middle of the 1st millennium BC. Have you seen R1b in the Pontic steppes
2500 years ago? On the other hand, a lot of R1a1 tribes came to Central
Europe from the East 2500 ybp. They spoke IndoEuropean languages. Other
sources date the Celts in Europe from 700-400 BC upward to our times. What
was before that?

Anyway, I would be happy to discuss the Celts if you folks find the origin
of the Celts in high quality scientific books. Plenty of sources write that
the Celts spoke IE language. If they were R1b1a2, why all of a sudden they
start to speak IE languages in the middle of the 1st millennium BC? What was
before that? What language had they spoken 1500 BC? 2000 BC? 2500 BC? Any
scientific evidences?


Anatole Klyosov

>Anatole Klyosov:
>Regarding the Celts, you need to give a clear definition who they were,
>where and when. The Celts are known from the 1st millennium BC, the R1b in
>Europe from the 3rd millennium BC. As you see, there is an obvious
>disconnection between these dates. The Celts in the 1st millennium BC spoke
>IndoEuropean language, the R1b1a2 in the 3-2 millennia probably did not. In
>fact, we do not know who those Celts from the 1st millennium BC were in
>terms of their haplogroups. Folks "assume" that they had R1b. I do not
>assume it. I do not know, though I have my considerations.

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