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From: Vincent Vizachero <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Middle eastern R1b
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:23:24 -0500


> I believe that this split in R1b-V88 versus R1b-L388 is mainly the
> reason for the proposition of an origin in the middle east. Actually
> it's more than a proposition on isogg and I was rather surprised.
> Looking at the haplotypes the R-V88 group doesn't look that old.

Didier,

This split of R-343 into two subclades (R-L389 and R-V88) is not at
all the main evidence for a SW Asian origin of R-M343. That deduction
was made well before L389 was discovered. The map you referenced was
drawn primarily to illustrate the current geographic spread of the two
subclades, but I do think it has a evidentiary benefits. Namely, I
think it helps us focus the hypothesis for where in SW Asia the MRCA
of R-343 might have lived.

As for the comparison to haplogroup I, the structure of R-M343 is
somewhat different from that of I to my eyes. After the MRCA of R-
M343, there is a relatively frequent branching structure with new
clades being preserved (aka "formed") more-or-less consistently. The
rate is not constant, but few branches are more than 5,000 years long
and some are quite a bit shorter. Maybe one clade preserved every 2-3
ky, on average? The branch from R-M343 to R-V88 is one of the longest
ones.

VV

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