GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives
Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2012-01 > 1327891034
From: Cyndi <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Question regarding Markers DYS459 and DYS464
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:37:14 -0500 (EST)
References: <1327887304.43605.YahooMailNeo@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <1327887304.43605.YahooMailNeo@web111305.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Hi Mike, Frank et al,
This may be true in general, but we're talking about a closely related family group here with this value--and as we all know, a mutation can happen anywhere. The R1a (and all subclades) has a number of people with 13 at DYS392. And I believe Frank says his cousin group IS R1a.... (I didn't look at all the values so can't comment on that, but it's certainly not impossible for his group to be R1a on that alone...)
Cyndi in Baltimore
The dead giveaway of the differing haplogroups is DYS392. R1a has
a modal of 11, while R1b (and only R1b) has a modal of 13.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Maddi <>
To: Genealogy-DNA List <>
Sent: Sun, Jan 29, 2012 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [DNA] Question regarding Markers DYS459 and DYS464
Frank Griggs wrote:
I would like to thank you all for
your timely and very informative responses, it is very much appreciated. I
don’t mean to take advantage, but we have another situation in our
“Grigg Y-Chromosome DNA Surname Project”
that we have no answer for. Another cousin, that once again has a
well-documented paper trail back to our John Griggs of Gravesend, took
the test and it resulted in a genetic distance of eight with only 12
markers tested. The following are the test results with column #2
representing the new cousin and column #1 representing the rest of us.
#1
#2
DYS393 13 13
DYS390 25 25
DYS19 15 15
DYS391 10 10
DYS385 11-15 11-14
DYS426 12 12
DYS388 12 12
DYS439 10 12
DYS389i 13 13
DYS392 11 13
DYS389ii 30 27
With these 12 marker results this cousin has
no matches at all in the “Family Tree DNA” database. I know that 12
markers isn’t much to draw any conclusions
from, but does anyone have any idea what might explain this other than
the fact that he’s just not related? Again, any help would be
greatly appreciated, Frank
My reply:
The cousin you write about above with 12 marker results that don't match other
surname project members is definitely not related to the others in the project.
He is not even in the same haplogroup as the others.
Plugging his marker values into Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor at
http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/hapest5a/hapest5.htm shows that this "cousin" is in
haplogroup R1a, with a very strong fitness rating of 84. His fitness rating for
R1b, which is undoubtedly the haplogroup of the other members of the project, is
a very low 24. The dead giveaway of the differing haplogroups is DYS392. R1a has
a modal of 11, while R1b (and only R1b) has a modal of 13.
Unfortunately, the "cousin" you are writing about has had an NPE at some point
in his paternal line and isn't related to the others in the project. He should
be looking for matches in ysearch and other projects who are R1a.
Mike Maddi
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