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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2012-07 > 1341435888


From: "Tim Janzen" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] News item: People of the British Isles exhibit in London
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:04:53 -0700
References: <1887881.1341344253613.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net><00bf01cd59be$076f5ed0$164e1c70$@norvic8.force9.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <00bf01cd59be$076f5ed0$164e1c70$@norvic8.force9.co.uk>


Dear Brian and others,
I find the clusters on the autosomal map at
http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/genetic-maps quite fascinating.
Has the Royal Society published their interpretation of these 17 clusters at
this point?
As I look at the map I see only 8 distinct colors at this point in
time: light green, pink, yellow, orange, red, blue, dark green, and brown.
This would be my initial interpretation of the clusters and their history:
1. Red. Found in southeast England and extending up into the Midlands and
slightly north of there. This cluster is primarily Anglo-Saxon in origin
and I would suspect that there is significant connection between this
cluster and the people living in NW Europe (Denmark, Belgium, the
Netherlands, northern France). The founders of this cluster probably
entered England with the immigration/invasion of Anglo-Saxons ca 400 AD and
there may be a Norman component in the cluster as well from the Norman
Conquest in 1066.
2. Dark Green. This cluster is found in Devon primarily. Its precise
origin is unclear to me at this point, but it appears to be an old British
cluster.
3. Brown. This cluster is found in Cornwall primarily. I suspect that
this cluster is linked to tribes that spoke Cornish. Its precise origin is
unclear to me at this point, but it appears to be an old British cluster. I
suspect that the cluster dates back to Bronze Age settlers.
4. Blue. This cluster is found primarily in Cheshire, Hereford,
Worchester, and Gloucester. There were large Roman settlements in Deva (now
near Chester) and Isca Silurum (Caerleon)(now near Cardiff). I believe that
this cluster is tied to descendents from Roman settlers who came to England
about 1800-2000 years ago. See
http://www.british-towns.net/national_maps/uk_roman_occupation.asp and other
sites for more background.
5. Orange. This cluster is found in Dyfed in Wales and in Cumbria and
Northumberland. I suspect that this cluster is linked to tribes that spoke
Brythonic languages (Welsh and Breton). Its precise origin is unclear to me
at this point, but it appears to be an old British cluster. I suspect that
the cluster dates back to Bronze Age settlers.
6. Pink. This cluster is found primarily in northwest Gwenedd in Wales and
in the southern part of the Orkney Islands. I suspect that this cluster is
Neolithic or possibly even Mesolithic in origin. Analysis of the origins of
this cluster would be particularly interesting.
7. Light green. This cluster is found primarily in Yorkshire and in the
northern part of the Orkney Islands. The people in this cluster are almost
certainly descendents of the Vikings who are known to have settled/invaded
the Orkney Islands and Yorkshire ca 800-1000 AD. See
http://viking.no/e/england/york/kingdom_of_york_m.html and
http://viking.no/e/england/index.html.
8. Yellow. This cluster is found in northern Ireland and in Scotland. It
is strongly associated with the Y haplogroup R-M222. See
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c7/default.aspx and other web sites.
This cluster is likely associated with Bronze Age settlers in Northern
Ireland and Scotland. It is associated with the Q Celtic language.

Others who know the ancient history of the British Isles better than I do
can probably add to this.

Sincerely,
Tim Janzen

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Brian P. Swann
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 1:22 AM
To: 'J. T. Nichols';
Subject: Re: [DNA] News item: People of the British Isles exhibit in London

I will post a bit more, probably on the ISOGG Facebook site - when I get
round to uploading the images. The bottom line is that they can divide the
British Isles population into about 17 clusters by autosomal DNA testing.
The exact details of how they do that - will be in the first paper, although
it may be in the paper they have already published. Can't remember.

They will have thought longer and harder about how to interpret the data
than any of us - and in my opinion it is scientifically courteous to let
them say that, before we start speculating too much on what it all means.
Otherwise you can prejudice any future relationship.

Brian


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