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------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain GENIRE-D DigestVolume 97 : Issue 125 Today's Topics: #1 SULLIVAN, Daniel;1800/40 [ (Ted Bee)] #2 Dublin Directories [ (Kerrie Raft] #3 The Cashel Family of Co. Tipperary [] #4 Surnames HESON BROWN BANNON GREEN [ (Juan Mar] #5 Surnames HESON BROWN BANNON GREEN [ (Juan Mar] #6 HARTLEY/CLARK;IRL.CAN; [<>] #7 Beware of Misuse of Info [ (Karla K Shahan] #8 COWEN, Dr. David Maclure; Ayr, SCT ["Gayle Fuson" <>] #9 Re: Beware of Misuse of Info [ (Norma Thornton)] #10 TILLER GIRLS [ (Alaine Bastow)] #11 Re: Beware of Misuse of Info [ (Jim McDonnell)] #12 Gawley [ (Aardvark)] #13 Re: IGI Ireland [ (Helen S] #14 Re: The one thing worse than Spam ["Tom Perrett" <>] #15 Re: IGI purchase [ (Pike)] #16 Torsney family;Co Sligo ["david torsney" <] #17 BROWNE / BONAR; DON,IRL and The We [seamus <>] #18 Re: where is the web site [] #19 Re: where is the web site [] #20 CEMETERY QUESTION [ (Pat Trecker)] Administrivia: This GENIRE digest has been distributed by RootsWeb. RootsWeb's home page is at http://www.rootsweb.com/. If you would like to unsubscribe from GENIRE, send to the message "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks). Don't include your address, your signature, or anything in the message body except that one word. (Do this also if you want to shift to NOMAIL mode, then just resubscribe later.) If you would like to have a message included in the GENIRE digest, send it to . ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #1 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 19:03:54 -0400 From: (Ted Bee) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: SULLIVAN, Daniel;1800/40 My gr.-gr. grandfather, Daniel Sullivan was a school teacher in County Cork, Ireland. He was born there about 1800 and died in Ireland before 1840 as his wife Ellen (Hurlihey) Sullivan migrated to Bangor, Maine with her daughter Johannah about that time. Ellen, who was born in 1807 in County Cork, Ireland, ran a boarding house in Bangor for some years, and died there on 19/3/1872. Her daughter, Johannah, married Thomas Oliver Simons and they had six children all born in Bangor during the mid to late 1800s.Her maiden name was most probably Hurlihey. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated---Ted Ted Brassard & Pat (O'Connell) Brassard 10 So. Summer St. Nottingham, NH 03290 E Mail: Web Page: http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~amadeus/ We both have extensive genealogies developed which means, of course, that many names are involved. But there are names that we have more interest in than others: Ted>>Brassard, Pilote, Dwyer, Perkins,Harold, Frolich, Kierstede, Weiser, Anneke Jans, Rapp, & DeLong Pat>>Baxter, Barnum, Calkins, Kirkham, Joy, Fields, Heald, Waite, Bancroft, & O'Connell ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #2 Date: 3 Nov 1997 17:38:05 -0800 From: (Kerrie Rafter) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Dublin Directories Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone know where I would find copies of Dublin directories for 1743-1789 and the Dublin Journal or Freeman's Journal for 1789. I am trying to find an obituary for John CAMPBELL, attorney, who died 1789 and an address in Dublin for him. The National Archives in Bishop Street advised me they don't have these publications. Thanks, Kerrie Rafter Inverell.NSW Australia ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #3 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:36:36 -0600 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: The Cashel Family of Co. Tipperary I am researching my G-Grandmother's family named Cashel. In the famine times Henry G. Cashel and his wife Christiana (nee Harding) moved to Kennington, London, England. It is thought that they may have lived in Bushfield House near Ballina, Co. Tipperary. In March 1866 my GG-Father Benjamin Harding Cashel executed a Power of Attorney from his father, Henry to sell some land in Clonbuy, Parish of Kilmastulla, Baroney of Owney and Aira. Certainly they owned and leased land in the Parish as Henry appears on land records. A Douglas Cashel, a "First Class Clerk in the employ of the City of Dublin" thought to be another son of Henry, appears in family documents until about 1912. Anyone who has the slightest Harding or Cashel connections is requested to e-mail me. -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #4 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 02:42:20 GMT From: (Juan Mara Solare) To: Message-ID: <63m227$> Subject: Surnames HESON BROWN BANNON GREEN Hello. My name is Juan Maria SOLARE, I was born in Argentina 1966 Among my ancestors, the grandfather of my grandmother was Mr Eduardo Bannon. He came from MAYO to Argentina, I believe, around 1870. There he married Brigida Henson Brown. Some hints??? ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #5 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 03:01:20 GMT From: (Juan Mara Solare) To: Message-ID: <63m35p$> Subject: Surnames HESON BROWN BANNON GREEN Hello. My name is Juan Maria SOLARE, I was born in Argentina 1966 Among my ancestors, the grandfather of my grandmother was Mr Eduardo Bannon. He came from MAYO to Argentina, I believe, around 1870. There he married Brigida Henson Brown. Some hints??? ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #6 Date: 4 Nov 1997 04:16:14 GMT From: <> To: Message-ID: <01bce8d8$daabbf80$> Subject: HARTLEY/CLARK;IRL.CAN; Looking for relatives of HARTLEY, THOMAS james,b.l842, IRL. He married CLARK,Roseanne,b.1855. She died in Lindsay, Ont, Canada,1932. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #7 Date: 3 Nov 1997 20:26:02 -0800 From: (Karla K Shahan) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Beware of Misuse of Info X-Message: #30 Date: 02 Nov 97 19:01:41 EST From: (Judith Hymes) Subject: Warning on Posting Immediate Family Remember that this is a public list serve available to both eager genealogists and to unscrupulous individuals. Many banks, pension accounts, social security, children's educational funds, etc. use your mother's maiden name as a security check. Those of you who are posting 20th century names and dates here, or on family web pages are putting yourselves and your relatives at financial risk. You are giving the scam artists and computer whizzes easy access to whatever you have, be it a little or a lot. The Internet provides access to wonderful information in faraway places, new relatives, and helpful researchers. I can now post queries in all those counties where my ancestors lived as they zigzagged across the globe ... I could never afford to join every genealogical society where an ancestor lived. Unfortunately the pedophiles, con artists and other unsavory members of our species also find this medium a great place to do business. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #8 Date: 4 Nov 1997 04:38:12 GMT From: "Gayle Fuson" <> To: Message-ID: <63m8rk$> Subject: COWEN, Dr. David Maclure; Ayr, SCT; 1876-1913 COWEN, Dr. David Maclure; Ayr, SCT; 1876-1913 Hi to all, My ggrandparents, the Robb's and Rowan's have been dead for 40 yrs. They were born in Maybole, Scotland and moved to Hamilton, Ontario about 1909-1923. Apparently there was a Dr. in Maybole who must have been so special to them that they kept a momento of his death. I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this man, and why he would be so special to my family. DAVID MACLURE COWAN, M.D. F.R.C.S.E. born at Maybole 11 Mar 1876, died 6 Dec 1913. This according to a postcard- type 80 yr old photo they kept. Along with this photo is a very long printed poem done in brogue called THE PEDLAR WOMAN'S STORY, Dr. Cowan's death recalled. The first paragraph before the poem begins says, " Dr. David Maclure Cowan of Maybole, died in Ayr County Hospital on the 6th December 1913, over seven years ago, and the tragic circumstances connected with his departure have not yet faded from the public memory. The poor woman whose story here is narrarated gives cause to remember the young doctor, and in his whole career there is perhaps not a more touching episode than the one unfolded in these verses, now published for the first time. Here is a bit of the beginning of this long poem: "When stricken doon, wi' trouble, And rackit sair wi' pain, I wondered wha would bring tae me The bloom o' health again. Oh there's a doctor laddie That leeves in Maybole toon He'll tell ye a' that's wrang, they said, And mak' ye hale an' soun. Anyone familiar with this gentleman??? Gayle WA state ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #9 Date: 3 Nov 1997 21:13:43 -0800 From: (Norma Thornton) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Beware of Misuse of Info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karla, this is very sound advice......& worthy of being posted twice....... thank you for thinking to post it to those who may get so excited about finding family they get carried away & post too much.............Norma Karla K Shahan wrote: > > X-Message: #30 > Date: 02 Nov 97 19:01:41 EST > From: (Judith Hymes) > Subject: Warning on Posting Immediate Family > > Remember that this is a public list serve available to both eager > genealogists > and to unscrupulous individuals. > > Many banks, pension accounts, social security, children's educational > funds, > etc. use your mother's maiden name as a security check. Those of you who > are > posting 20th century names and dates here, or on family web pages are > putting > yourselves and your relatives at financial risk. You are giving the scam > artists and computer whizzes easy access to whatever you have, be it a > little > or a lot. > > The Internet provides access to wonderful information in faraway places, > new > relatives, and helpful researchers. I can now post queries in all those > counties where my ancestors lived as they zigzagged across the globe ... > I > could never afford to join every genealogical society where an ancestor > lived. > > Unfortunately the pedophiles, con artists and other unsavory members of > our > species also find this medium a great place to do business. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #10 Date: 3 Nov 1997 21:42:33 -0800 From: (Alaine Bastow) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: TILLER GIRLS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: . >From: Alaine Bastow <> >Subject: TILLER GIRLS > > Could someone please help me locate information on the Jhn TILLER >Group in London ,England >My GGGrandmother was with that group around 1900. >Any info will be greatly appreciated. >Thank you very much. > >Alaine ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #11 Date: 3 Nov 1997 22:12:36 -0800 From: (Jim McDonnell) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: Beware of Misuse of Info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karla K Shahan wrote: > > X-Message: #30 > Date: 02 Nov 97 19:01:41 EST > From: (Judith Hymes) > Subject: Warning on Posting Immediate Family > > Remember that this is a public list serve available to both eager > genealogists > and to unscrupulous individuals. > > Many banks, pension accounts, social security, children's educational > funds, > etc. use your mother's maiden name as a security check. Those of you who > are > posting 20th century names and dates here, or on family web pages are > putting > yourselves and your relatives at financial risk. You are giving the scam > artists and computer whizzes easy access to whatever you have, be it a > little > or a lot. > > The Internet provides access to wonderful information in faraway places, > new > relatives, and helpful researchers. I can now post queries in all those > counties where my ancestors lived as they zigzagged across the globe ... > I > could never afford to join every genealogical society where an ancestor > lived. > > Unfortunately the pedophiles, con artists and other unsavory members of > our > species also find this medium a great place to do business. Well that's it then. In the interest of security, do not discuss your family genealogy on the NET. We need more of this. Some people seem to need attention and this is a preferred method, FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt). Pedophiles indeed!! As sick and threatening as pedophiles may be, they pose less of a threat to society than the sickos who go about shouting fire using any supposed justification. We end up defending against so many presumed threats that any kind of a normal life is impossible. Now tell us about the witches in Salem. -- Jim McDonnell Seattle, Washington "It is in the shelter of each other that people live." --- an ancient Irish proverb ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #12 Date: 4 Nov 1997 07:37:07 GMT From: (Aardvark) To: Message-ID: <63mjb3$s8t$3@brie.direct.ca> Subject: Gawley Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Anyone else out there go by the name of Gawley? ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #13 Date: 4 Nov 1997 01:16:25 -0800 From: (Helen Steller) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: IGI Ireland Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IGI (microfiche form) is certainly available for purchase in Australia. I bought my copies (including Ireland and quite a few Scottish and English counties) from the Family History Centre at Carlingford in Sydney. At the time they cost 25 Australian cents per fiche, but I think that has gone up in recent years to about 28 Aust cents. If you give them a call (number is in the phone book), they will send you an order form with current pricing details. Helen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Helen STELLER, Newcastle, NSW, Australia email: home page: http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~ddhms/index.html researching: Ireland - WARREN, HYNDS, CALDWELL, ALLERTON, TEEVAN, SEAMAN, JOHNSTON, CREIGHTON, FORREST, CLANCY, DALY ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #14 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 97 19:06:22 +0900 From: "Tom Perrett" <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: The one thing worse than Spam Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 1 Nov 1997 05:51:47 -0800, Ray Marshall, Minneapolis wrote: :> :> :>Incessant complaining about Spam. It lt's like complaining about the :>weather. :> :>People, listen up! In one form or another, it will always be with you if :>you want to participate on the Internet. :> :>Ray Ray, GREAT mate, at last a grain of sense. All this anti-spam SPAM drives me to drink (or nearly so any way). Why the heck people just don't ignore it and get on with the other interesting things amazes me. Folks have been trying for years to stop it, won't ever succeed. Cheers, Tom <> Tom Perrett - Australia ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #15 Date: 4 Nov 1997 02:29:24 -0800 From: (Pike) To: Message-ID: <v01530500b0841776160e@[203.57.210.213]> Subject: Re: IGI purchase Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Di Reid wrote; >I would check with your local Mormon centre as I know a number of people >who have quite a private collection of IGI fiche here in Australia Hi I am one of these who has purchased the IGI for a number of English counties, all of Ireland, as well as the Localities Catalogue. As this topic seems to be an ongoing one in the newsgroup, I have just checked with the Genealogical Society of Utah in Sydney, Australia and they told me that the 1992 edition of the IGI on fiche for Britain and Ireland is available for purchase by individuals. They can be ordered from Sydney and paid for in Australian dollars. The IGI can be bought for a complete country, (ie Ireland, England) or by individual county. Most other countries are also available for purchase , although there are a few which are not, apparently for privacy reasons. The latest edition of the Localities catalogue 1996/7 can also be bought. I don't see why the availability situation should be different in countries other than Australia, but I agree with Di - check out the situation with your local LDS FH centre. They should have order forms and prices. Aileen P ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #16 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:44:00 -0000 From: "david torsney" <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Torsney family;Co Sligo Can anyone help me. I have an ancestor called John Torsney who married Bridget Kellechan in Co Sligo They had a son called Francis Torsney who was married in Ballysodare in 1879 to Mary Barrett they emigrated to Scotland between 1879 and 1894. I am looking for more info on John Torsney (above) and his ancestors ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #17 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 21:36:22 +0100 From: seamus <> To: Message-ID: <> Subject: BROWNE / BONAR; DON,IRL and The West, 1800 - now Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, I (too) am searching for information concerning my Irish ancestors ... This article is in four parts. 1. Introduction 2. Ancestor Chart 3. Family info 4. The Browne name, origin and spelling. I have some Home Pages with Family photos if you're really interested; http://perso.wanadoo.fr/seamus -------------------------------------------------------- 1. Introduction -------------------------------------------------------- I realise that professional researchers would obviously do a better job than myself but then I thought that if the information had *already* been researched - and found - there would be no point in researching it again. And no point in paying research fees for information that has already been compiled. I did contact a Research Centre in Rathmelton, Co. Donegal when I was over, but found that their system was dubious. They wanted to be paid on an hourly rate, which, I have always found, is the best way of encouraging people to waste time. They also had a crowd of unemployed young men and women, 'in training', learning to use the computers. I suppose it is laudable in one sense but there was no way in knowing if the job was been done efficiently or not. So I did not engage their services ... So, if anyone Browne down in Galway - or elsewhere out West - is trying to track down - a Neilly Browne who left for Donegal with the Walford family ... Well, I have one ... Any other information available would be greatly appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------- 2. The Chart itself. -------------------------------------------------------- My name is Seamus Browne, (John James Browne to be precise). That's me on the left, in the middle . You'll maybe have to widen out the window .. and set the font to Fixed Width, Courier 10) + Neil MAC A'BHREITHEAMHAIN (BROWNE) + James BROWNE | + Kitty Ann PATTON + Neil BROWNE b.1857 m.1904 d.1963 | | + ? BOYLE | + Eleanor BOYLE | + ? GALLAGHER + John BROWNE b.16/09/1912 d.09/02/1997 | | + Patrick REID | | + Patrick (Paddy) Reid b.1848(?46)d.1930 | | | + ? Mc CAFFERTY or Mc DAID | + Elizabeth REID b.1881 or 1882 | | + James (or Neal) DEVENNY | + Eleanor DEVENNY b.1853(?51) | + ? Ellen DOHERTY John James (Seamus) BROWNE b.1953 | + John BONAR | + James BONAR | | + ? O'DONNELL | + Patrick BONAR | | | + ?? | | + Kitty BONNER | | + ?? + Mary BONAR b.1915 d.1991 | + ?? | + Peter DOHERTY | | + ?? + Annie DOHERTY | + ?? + Margaret Peggy BONAR + ?? -------------------------------------------------------- 3. Family info -------------------------------------------------------- The chart starts on the Browne side (at the top) with Neil, my Granda's Granda. All of these people, except myself and Old Neil, are from around Glenfinn and Glen Swilly in Co. Donegal. The Bonars came from 'The Back of Beyond', or as my Aunty Nora once said, rather more poetically, 'The Heart of the Mountain.' That would be somewhere out beyond Finntown in Western Donegal Old Neilly Browne, who married Kitty Ann Patton, is said to have come from 'The West', maybe from Galway, and arrived in Donegal as a servant with the Walford family. He then settled in Black Falls which is West of Letterkenny in the Swilly Valley and then gradually, apparently, the Brownes moved into the areas around Drumkeen, Meentycait, Stroan, along the River Deele. -------------------------------------------------------- 4. The Browne name, origin and spelling. -------------------------------------------------------- Please note: I do not pretend to be an expert on any of the following subjects. All that follows has been compiled from hearsay but if anyone has anything interesting to say, correct, append or dispute, I will gladly lend an ear or two. There are - as far as I know - at least two sorts of Brown(e) in Ireland. One name is from the Norman 'De Brun' which means 'brown (-haired)' which became 'De Bruin' in Gaelic. The other is the 'Brehon' or 'Brehuin' sort. In a word, the brehons were the judges in druidic times. I believe they counselled the kings in lawmaking so that the law of the land would not displease the divinities. My father remembered being called 'Maher Brehuin' or 'Mac A' Brehuin' (to keep the spelling simple) by the old folks when he was a boy. 'Maher' or 'Mac A' meaning 'son of.. ' The transformation from Brehuin to Browne was probably operated by some local administrative official in an attempt to render the Irish names pronounceable by the English and Scottish overlords. A similar 'conversion' was operated on place names and - in both circumstances - little or no attention was applied to sense. The rule seems to have been 'Anything goes as long as there exist a shred of similarity and it sounds like an existing English word'. Thus anything beginning with a 'Br' sound could become 'Brown'. Names thus became pronounceable - but meaningless. Such was the fate of colonies the world over .. In Brittany, descendants of the brehons are now Brehon, but also Briand, Briant, Brillant etc. The name 'Brown' was a common Scottish planters name and it has been said that the Brown with an 'e' (Browne) was applied to Irish Catholic families in order to avoid confusion with the new neighbours. The spelling of his name 'BHREITHEAMHAIN' was given by my father and noted by my brother Martin - from whom I received the following information. The rather complex spelling of BHREITHEAMHAIN results from an attempt to convey Irish pronunciation into English. The Irish alphabet is similar to but not the same as the Roman alphabet used in English, and English lettering and typeface do not possess the accentuation marks used in Irish. In standard Irish spelling - using standard English typeface - the letter H is used to indicate the use of an aspirate whereas in Irish lettering a dot would be placed over the aspirated character. To furthermore complicate the issue, Irish uses filler vowels to make words balanced. This sometimes leads to a lengthening of words which some would consider unnecessary. I shall go no further on this or I shall really be out of my depth! Bye for now, keep in touch. Seamus. ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #18 Date: 4 Nov 1997 05:13:17 -0800 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: where is the web site saw in your post that you refered to a web site that had Irish family mottos? would like to find it My grandfather Rogers. had one tha I don't know if it was a family one or not . but I have always liked it so I am passing it a long If you look for the Good in People you will find it. If you look for the bad you will find it too. because their is a little good in the worst of people and a little bad in the best. I don't know if the workds exact but that is the way I remember it. I have tried to teach it to my children. sorry got a little off subject: WEB address please Patti Moore Lininger ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #19 Date: 4 Nov 1997 05:46:40 -0800 From: To: Message-ID: <> Subject: Re: where is the web site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wrote: > > saw in your post that you refered to a web site that had Irish family mottos? > would like to find it Hi, The URL for the Irish Family Mottos is: http://www.winshop.com.au/merv/mottos.htm Slan, Margaret (Mairead) ______________________________ ------------------------------ X-Message: #20 Date: 4 Nov 1997 07:44:43 -0800 From: (Pat Trecker) To: Message-ID: <> Subject: CEMETERY QUESTION Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have any information on a cemetery on OMEY ISLAND just off Clifden, County Galway? Looking for an address to find names of those buried there. "Pat Trecker researching DUNN, MORRIN, CURRAN, KING, BRENNAN, MARTIN, MERRY, O'TOOLE.txt"