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Archiver > GENIRE > 2000-03 > 0953509491


From: "Sean J Murphy" <>
Subject: Re: Irish Crown Jewels Affair
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:44:51 -0000


To continue with our 'nonsense' history lesson. Vicars's successor as Ulster
in 1908, Sir Nevile Wilkinson, was a classically 'safe pair of hands': fine
for weathering the particular crisis caused by the 'Crown Jewels' theft, but
pretty disastrous in the longer term. Wilkinson died in 1940, and second
hand comments from an unnamed source cannot compete with MacLysaght's
description of Ulster's Office as he found it: 'I have had some experience
in the course of my life of cleaning up messes, but never have I tackled
anything as bad as was the Office of Arms in April 1943' (Changing Times,
page 182). The current Genealogical Office mess is in fact even worse,
involving the recognition of not just one but several bogus or questionable
Chiefs (MacCarthy Mr, Maguire of Fermanagh, etc), as well as wilful
ignorance of the standards and records established by MacLysaght. In terms
of human nature, it is perhaps understandable that those connected with the
Genealogical Office should have reacted to revelations concerning the Chiefs
Scandal with simple denial or evasion, sometimes accompanied by detraction
against the main whistle blower in the affair.

Sean Murphy
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/


Paul Gorry <> wrote in message
news:ht4B4.1018$...
> It is nonsense to suggest that Ulster's Office "never recovered" from the
> "Irish Crown Jewels" incident. Ulster's Office continued in its work up
to
> 1943. After Sir Arthur Vicars' forced departure, it had the services of
two
> excellent genealogists, George D. Burtchaell and Thomas U. Sadleir.
Sadleir
> remained there till the handing over to the Irish government in 1943. If
> between 1922 (long after the "Irish Crown Jewels" incident) and 1943 the
> office had a relatively low profile, that had more to do with the
political
> climate than with any damage to its reputation resulting from the 1907
> affair.
>
> Admittedly, Sadleir was not a great administrator but he was a highly
> respected herald and genealogist. If you were to use MacLysaght's
> autobiography as your main source of information on the pre-1943
situation,
> you would be sadly misguided. MacLysaght's account of Sadleir and the
other
> Ulster's Office staff of 1943 was hostile and biased. I was told this by
a
> genealogist who conducted freelance research under both Sadleir's and
> MacLysaght's administrations and who had regard for both individuals.
>
> Paul Gorry
>
> Sean J Murphy wrote in message ...
> >The Irish Office of Arms or Ulster's Office never recovered from the blow
> to
> >its reputation and competence caused by the 'Crown Jewels' Scandal, and
it
> >remained in a sort of limbo after independence in 1922.
> <snip>
>
>

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