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Archiver > GENIRE > 2002-05 > 1020799745


From: (Hugh McKiernan)
Subject: Re: Local knowledge, generalities, etc (was Re: Marriage recognition)
Date: 7 May 2002 12:29:05 -0700
References: <3CCF59FD.2A83446C@move.worldnet.att.net>, <2a8185f1.0205031250.72f888f9@posting.google.com>, <HBDA8.11729$e5.78522@news.indigo.ie>


"Sean MacLochlainn" <> wrote in message news:<HBDA8.11729$>...
> "Hugh McKiernan" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>
> > O'Clery's Genealogies and O'Dubhagain's (or O'Dugan's) topographical
> > poem are quite specific. Used in conjunction one can almost place a
> > family on home ground about 1370.
>
> Ahem.....the topographical poems of O Dubhagain and O Huidhrin were written
> circa 1370 but they give locations of families just before the Anglo-Norman
> invasion of 1169.
>
> Does it give coats of arms for these families? No it doesn't.
>
> Sean


Hello Sean,
I should have known that you wouldn't be able to keep your nose out of
this thread. Sure enough, here you are with some idea that you've
cooked up or borrowed from some other scribbler that you treasure.
It is immediately obvious that you've never read the poem. The septs
referred to in the work resided in the areas mentioned at the time of
writing - it says so in the text - and had done so hundreds of years.
Even a cursory glance at any of the major annals will tell you that
the whole of Ireland did not move house in 1169. It would appear that
you have utilised some free online database, or similarly inaccurate
source, and accepted the result unquestioningly.
If you were genuinely interested I would refer you to O'Clery's
version of the poem rather than Carney's or O'Donovan's effort. Carney
followed 'O'Donovan' in a lot of translation errors. I put O'Donovan
in inverted commas because he was dead by the time the book was
published in his name. There has long been suspicion that the
translation of this work was influenced by O'Donovan's brother-in-law,
Eugene O'Curry.
But your statement is actually true, Sean; the poem (singular, mind
you) does indeed give the location of families just before 1169; only
because this is the same location, mostly, that they were still
occupying in 1370 when O'Dubagain died leaving the poem unfinished.
The way you put your statement, though, is an obvious attempt to
mislead making it seem as though you are presenting something as yet
unknown or unmentioned, when in fact it is spurious to do so since
what appears to be important in your statement is, in fact, obvious
and of no particular importance.
But, there you go. It takes all kinds I guess... I suppose that's the
best you could manage on what is one of the singularly most important
books to Irish genealogy that has ever been written.
Your 'coats of arms' line seems to be something that you learnt in the
playground earlier but can't quite remember ... I'm afraid I have no
comment.

H.

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